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Emasher

Leave It To The Americans To Declare War On Themselves

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I like that Ron Paul has values that he is ready to fight for, and he seems to know what he is talking about, but that also means that things like abortion would be in trouble. I still think he is the best candidate though, seems less likely to sell out like Obama.

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IMO the whole republican thing has been engineered. Watch as hopeful after hopeful comes forward, does well for a minute, then dies off. I think someone wants obama for two terms and is willing to go to great lengths to ensure it.

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What?

 

You sound crazy.

 

But in all seriousness, the best potential Republican candidates never came forward.

 

I think most intelligent Republican candidates realise that after G.W Bush their image is still hurting.

 

And after Obama having such popularity it's even harder.

 

HOWEVER.

 

Anyone who's REAL smart would realise that your longevity/legacy isn't best served at this point in history.

 

Also, I think Ron Paul is great.

 

For a start I'm not all convinced that his racist newsletters were real.

 

But secondly.

 

He's pretty core in terms of his ideals and generally just wants to let the constitution to rule.

 

Which isn't half-bad.

 

Would be better than letting that fucking crazy defence bill pass like what Obama is doing.

 

THANKS OBAMA.

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Yeah I heard him say that I think, but I also heard him say they should not have let abortion stand, which is where I got it.

 

Being pretty much the only one not planning on going to wars and wanting to get spending under control, give some freedoms back and basically just follow the constitution is what should get him elected though. Whether he can actually put them through or not... He can at least stop more awful bills coming through. He has said he will just veto any bills that try to take freedoms away or want to increase military spending or whatever. Unlike Obama, a liberal passing that fucking bill on the other thread lol. Obama also didn't do anything to remove troops from Iraq since Bush said he would have them out by the end of 2011. Obama just put on a friendly smile to distract people, he has been shit.

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I like that Ron Paul has values that he is ready to fight for, and he seems to know what he is talking about, but that also means that things like abortion would be in trouble. I still think he is the best candidate though, seems less likely to sell out like Obama.

 

The good thing about Ron Paul, is that even if he's personally against something, he doesn't think the federal government has the authority to enforce bans on such things anyway.

 

Sure, the undeniably backwards states will ban things, but the northern states are unlikely to. Its not ideal, but its better than federal bans like some other candidates might be interested in imposing.

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Emasher: as a resident of America's Hat, why do you even care?

 

It's so fashionable to bash America: they are the big, greedy, burger-eating, gun-having self-appointed "World Police" so it's totally reasonable to criticise their every move.

 

Recently in China, an entire village was cordoned off by police after the village leaders chased out police and local officials -one of the villagers had died in police custody under suspicious circumstances after protesting illegal government land-grabs. The government's answers? Isolate the village, cut off supply lines and starve them to death.

 

Did anyone give a crap about that? No, because America are the bad guys. They're the big easy target who always seem to mess up. Wow, well done, you criticised America, well done. Genuinely. Well done. Great. Well done. Nice one. Well done.

 

 

Any of you particularly bothered about the famine in the Horn of Africa caused by massive government corruption and the gleeful violence inflicted on women and children by the Islamists who are equally responsible? No! Oh well, fine, let's have a go at the American fat cats, we're the one percent after all that have none of the wealth.

 

How about the cecession of South Sudan and the attempts by theNorth and her allies to extract lower than market price for oil, and threats along the order if the crude doesn't keep flowing? Hmm? That doesn't get your goat? A newly-created country is being choked by the neighbour they sought independence from due to SLAUGHTER ON A MASSIVE SCALE. But no, some idiot in America is proposing that people missing a finger should be considered terrorist suspects, so therefore we should have a go at them.

 

My point is not to deflect attention from the ills of the US: there are plenty. We could spend all day doing it. I personally don't think those idiots should have guns. There, that was easy, wasn't it?

 

Yes, we have a crack at the States because it's easy and wilfully ignore goodness-knows how many equally pressing problems the world over because there's a nice, bi,g, slow-moving target that we can hit every single time. Good work, you successfully kicked the shit out of a legless Rottweiler, pat yourself on the back for having such a big fucking social conscience.

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Start a thread? I'd heard about that Chinese village story, pretty fucked up. Seems a bit odd to stifle debate about something relevant

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Emasher: as a resident of America's Hat, why do you even care?

 

It's so fashionable to bash America: they are the big, greedy, burger-eating, gun-having self-appointed "World Police" so it's totally reasonable to criticise their every move.

 

Recently in China, an entire village was cordoned off by police after the village leaders chased out police and local officials -one of the villagers had died in police custody under suspicious circumstances after protesting illegal government land-grabs. The government's answers? Isolate the village, cut off supply lines and starve them to death.

 

Did anyone give a crap about that? No, because America are the bad guys. They're the big easy target who always seem to mess up. Wow, well done, you criticised America, well done. Genuinely. Well done. Great. Well done. Nice one. Well done.

 

 

Any of you particularly bothered about the famine in the Horn of Africa caused by massive government corruption and the gleeful violence inflicted on women and children by the Islamists who are equally responsible? No! Oh well, fine, let's have a go at the American fat cats, we're the one percent after all that have none of the wealth.

 

How about the cecession of South Sudan and the attempts by theNorth and her allies to extract lower than market price for oil, and threats along the order if the crude doesn't keep flowing? Hmm? That doesn't get your goat? A newly-created country is being choked by the neighbour they sought independence from due to SLAUGHTER ON A MASSIVE SCALE. But no, some idiot in America is proposing that people missing a finger should be considered terrorist suspects, so therefore we should have a go at them.

 

My point is not to deflect attention from the ills of the US: there are plenty. We could spend all day doing it. I personally don't think those idiots should have guns. There, that was easy, wasn't it?

 

Yes, we have a crack at the States because it's easy and wilfully ignore goodness-knows how many equally pressing problems the world over because there's a nice, bi,g, slow-moving target that we can hit every single time. Good work, you successfully kicked the shit out of a legless Rottweiler, pat yourself on the back for having such a big fucking social conscience.

 

Calm down, man. I fail to see where any of us "wilfully ignore" horrible acts like those you describe there. It's not like any of us personally have the power to do anything about any of the horrible things that happen in the world. We can only discuss them, and fact is we hear much more about what's going on in the US than places like China. That is a problem, I agree, but we're not the ones to target. We simply discuss what we know about.

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That's bad... But isn't it a simple one to make it a large one!!!

 

That's certainly a very interesting point you make. Indeed I do feel that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Obviously just another drop in the media's ocean of exaggeration, bullshit and fabrication. It's not as if America are going to start torturing everyone with a finger missing. Nor are they going to be waiting outside Wal-Marts arresting anyone with a few tins of baked beans.

 

I think it's far more likely that these points are more of checklist/guideline so to speak, used to check somebody whom they already have reason to suspect of terrorism. Not a mandate to go around locking up every amputee, organised person and disgruntled worker.

 

Another problem that I see with this media exaggeration is that people tend to get distracted by these facts, which are often easily over-turned, thus negating any objection that people previously had, rather than focusing on the overall issues, such as the reduction of liberties and the breach of the constitution (not that I care much for the US constitution, I consider it outdated and archaic, and often used to hamper progress, most notably the 2nd amemdment). If I were a more paranoid man/prone to conspiracy, I'd suggest that this way of presenting news in the media was propagated by the government themselves, in order to detract from the real issues.

 

But overall I think we should all remember this vital message; it's a simple one to make it a large one.

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Emasher: as a resident of America's Hat, why do you even care?

 

That's actually quite an easy question to answer. I care because Canadian policy tends to reflect American policy. And right now, we have a prime minister who's very keen on mirroring things that the US does. Its been like that for ages now.

 

I don't hate the United States, I'm worried about what this means for my own country.

 

As for the rest of your post, all of those other things that happen in the world are terrible yes, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss bad things that happen that aren't quite as bad. In fact, when things are that bad, there tends to be little to discuss in the first place. Everyone agrees those things are bad so they tend to turn into threads full of the same post over and over again. If you think there's something worth discussing however, why not start a thread yourself?

 

That's certainly a very interesting point you make. Indeed I do feel that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Obviously just another drop in the media's ocean of exaggeration, bullshit and fabrication. It's not as if America are going to start torturing everyone with a finger missing. Nor are they going to be waiting outside Wal-Marts arresting anyone with a few tins of baked beans.

 

There's been very little media coverage of this actually. That BBC article was one of the first times the mainstream media acknowledged the implications of the bill.

 

You're probably right that the primary use will be to lock up people who are actually terrorists, but that's not what worries people. Its the very ambiguous nature of it that worries people, and the fact that it could be used at some point to do something much more sinister.

 

Nobody's expecting everyone who meets those requirements to end up in a camp. Its the fact that Terrorist is a very ambiguous term, and that terror suspect is even more so. People are worried about the possibility that they might one day say or do something that would cause action to be taken against them in such a way, when they've done nothing wrong.

 

If you're accused of a crime, even terrorism, you should still get a fair trial, you should still be judged and sentenced in the same way as everyone else, and if it turns out you really are innocent, you should be released immediately.

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Calm down, man. I fail to see where any of us "wilfully ignore" horrible acts like those you describe there. It's not like any of us personally have the power to do anything about any of the horrible things that happen in the world. We can only discuss them, and fact is we hear much more about what's going on in the US than places like China. That is a problem, I agree, but we're not the ones to target. We simply discuss what we know about.

 

Sorry dude, but it really gets my goat. There are far worse things out there, but America is constantly the obvious choice for criticism. Not that it shouldn't be a target, as there is plenty to criticise.

 

But the tired ravings of insane no-name politicians really doesn't figure in the big picture.

 

And I think really people need a dose of reality as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

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Being pretty much the only one not planning on going to wars and wanting to get spending under control, give some freedoms back and basically just follow the constitution is what should get him elected though.

 

Unfortunately...I think there are people out there who don't want America to stop invading other countries :|

 

--

 

re: Iun's post - a summary: American news is overexposed. Though, tbvh, even though atrocities also occur in places like China, North Korea etc., America is somewhat more relevant/easy to rant about, as it's a big English-speaking country with a large® amount of power and influence on the West (the part of the world in which most of us America-bashers reside). There's so much bad stuff going on that it's impossible to feel as strongly about everything...so we concentrate on the stuff that affects us the most. Iun, for you, happenings in China are more immediate, but it's just not the same for everyone. Many factors come into play regarding how many damns people give about any one particular issue, including heritage, location, (censorship) laws, etc.

 

(This is a tired ramble, and not a fierce rebuttal in any way...)

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Whaaaa. This is like a bill that'd be passed under Bush, Not Obama. Fuck sake.

 

Have you been ignoring American news for the last 3 years?

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I get what people are saying, and I sorry to rant.

 

But let's be honest: this is some BS that is being proposed not something that is actually definitely happening.

 

And there is stuff that is actually definitely happening elsewhere. But still, America is the easy kill, and off we go.

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Unfortunately...I think there are people out there who don't want America to stop invading other countries :|

 

--

 

re: Iun's post - a summary: American news is overexposed. Though, tbvh, even though atrocities also occur in places like China, North Korea etc., America is somewhat more relevant/easy to rant about, as it's a big English-speaking country with a large® amount of power and influence on the West (the part of the world in which most of us America-bashers reside). There's so much bad stuff going on that it's impossible to feel as strongly about everything...so we concentrate on the stuff that affects us the most. Iun, for you, happenings in China are more immediate, but it's just not the same for everyone. Many factors come into play regarding how many damns people give about any one particular issue, including heritage, location, (censorship) laws, etc.

 

(This is a tired ramble, and not a fierce rebuttal in any way...)

 

A sad truth.

 

But still, America is the easy kill, and off we go.

 

I agree with most of your points, actually, but this is where I don't agree with you. This isn't about America being an easy target for criticism (which they are, but if we followed up on it all we'd have time for nothing else). Like Eddie says, this is about America being a lot more relevant to us; stuff like this hits closer to home because we are much more closely linked with the US, and thus there's a high probability this could affect us in one way or another. Yes, much of the stuff happening in China and other places are probably much worse, but the sad truth is that we (and the media) are more concerned with the more local goings-on. It's human nature.

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And an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure as they say. It's a lot harder to correct something like China than it is to keep America from falling, and America could actually listen to the concerns of people. If we're unhappy about a law recently passed in a democratic country then of course we will mention it, not just ignore it because there are worse things. Discussing the ridiculous countries is tired and feels pointless anyway because their leaders don't give a fuck and would rather their people all die than give up power. It would take a revolution to change them.

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But let's be honest: this is some BS that is being proposed not something that is actually definitely happening.

 

Actually its already passed. We'll likely never know when its actually used to detain someone, so now would be the time to discuss it.

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Another thing I forgot to mention: I utterly hate it when people use the argument: "There are much worse things, so you shouldn't complain about X!" Sorry, but that's a ridiculous argument - if you follow that argument to its logical conclusion (assuming that it's even possible to rank bad things objectively), only one single bad thing in the universe is worth complaining about at any one moment.

Edited by Dannyboy-the-Dane

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Actually its already passed. We'll likely never know when its actually used to detain someone, so now would be the time to discuss it.

 

They passed it? Ah well, what can be done. If its law, you can hope for a repeal or simply suffer under it.

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Discussing the ridiculous countries

 

~The Ridiculous Countries~ should be labelled and defined on all future maps :laughing:

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