Thor: The Dark World

[chairdriver]

I hope Enchantress or Ultron is the villain.

[Retro_Link]

Ultron's not likely, given that story will most likely be saved for, or come after Giant/Ant-Man has been established in the universe. Plus it's a bit similar to Destroyer in the first film.

 

Enchantress could be interesting, what with Jane following Thor on his travels this time. And they haven't had a female villian in a Marvel movie yet.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Retro_Link

[Dan_Dare]

I hope Enchantress or Ultron is the villain.

 

Ultron will appear at the end of Avengers 2. Believe.

[Paj!]

I can see Enchantress being done, along with maybe a few other antagonists like Executioner (her partner anyway). They could either do something like Wrecking Crew in addition or maybe even establish the first Masters of Evil in some way. That could actually be quite stunning.

 

Oh, and Valkyrie could be so necessary.

[Dan_Dare]

That cover is unnph.

[chairdriver]

I love how her face says with minimal emotion: "I pray you burn in hel"

[Cube]

It looks like "I was going to buy that dress, bitch."

 

Which I suppose is pretty much the same.

[chairdriver]

Why would she be buying a dress though?

[Cube]

I'm just going by the look on her face - she looks like a pissed off teenager. I know virtually nothing about The Avengers and respective universes outside of these films.

[Retro_Link]

Can't see them having 4 female leads in a film... Jane, Sif, Enchantress and Valkyrie.

 

Surely they'd play up Sif rather than introduce Valkyrie for the sake of it.

[chairdriver]

Can't see them having 4 female leads in a film... Jane, Sif, Enchantress and Valkyrie.

 

Why not? There were 6 male leads in Avengers.

[Magnus]

Valkyrie's feet are really weird.

 

Is she supposed to be half horse?

[chairdriver]

Valkyrie's feet are really weird.

 

Is she supposed to be half horse?

 

No that's just the art style.

[Retro_Link]

Because chair, that's what The Avengers is!

 

What would be the advantage to having both Sif and Valkyrie when it would make much more sense to develop Sif's character, which is far more important in terms of a set of Thor films.

[chairdriver]

Because chair, that's what The Avengers is!

 

What the Avengers is is a superhero team. There's no reason why they had to choose that line up. In fact, I don't think Hulk has ever been on the same Avengers team as Captain America in the comics. To say that it was necessary to have 6 male leads and 1 female lead is false.

 

What would be the advantage to having both Sif and Valkyrie when it would make much more sense to develop Sif's character, which is far more important in terms of a set of Thor films.

 

Valkryie is more central to the Thor mythos than Sif is, I'd say. Sif is essentially just the 4th Warrior Three, with not much consequence to anything, where Valkyrie comes to earth and joins the Avengers/Defenders and is sorta the female counterbalance to Thor.

[Retro_Link]

What the Avengers is is a superhero team. There's no reason why they had to choose that line up. In fact, I don't think Hulk has ever been on the same Avengers team as Captain America in the comics. To say that it was necessary to have 6 male leads and 1 female lead is false.

I didn't say it was necessary to have 6 male leads, but honestly what are you talking about. They've established the characters they have for a reason, and because males greatly outweigh females comic book characters, and because there's a shortage of interesting/recognisable female characters who can take a lead role... if there was then they would have done a film about them.

 

There's no point just throwing in new/random characters for the sake of some sort of balance.

 

Valkryie is more central to the Thor mythos than Sif is, I'd say. Sif is essentially just the 4th Warrior Three, with not much consequence to anything, where Valkyrie comes to earth and joins the Avengers/Defenders and is sorta the female counterbalance to Thor.

But it's a conflict/overlap of interests. You actually have to think about the continuing story in these films, you can't just see them as comics. Is there even a Thor comic that has Jane, Sif, Valkyrie and Enchantress in it? It's too much for one film/story.

[chairdriver]

There's no point just throwing in new/random characters for the sake of some sort of balance.

 

No, but the point is that neither of them are random: Enchantress and Valkyrie are the two glaring character omissions from the Thor movie. Enchantress herself makes the most sense as the Villain in Thor 2 (assuming they aren't going to do Loki again), and Valkyrie the most sense as Thor's opponent/ally -- especially because she could be set up to be an Avenger in Avengers 2, and because there was a storyline where Enchantress manipulated her into doing her bidding / attacking Thor on her behalf.

 

To say it wouldn't happen because there'd never be 4 female leads just seems randomly sexist. [And I probably wouldn't call Sif a lead anyway]

Edited May 17, 2012 by chairdriver

[Retro_Link]

No, but the point is that neither of them are random: Enchantress and Valkyrie are the two glaring character omissions from the Thor movie. Enchantress herself makes the most sense as the Villain in Thor 2 (assuming they aren't going to do Loki again), and Valkyrie the most sense as Thor's opponent/ally -- especially because she could be set up to be an Avenger in Avengers 2, and because there was a storyline where Enchantress manipulated her into doing her bidding / attacking Thor on her behalf.

 

To say it wouldn't happen because there'd never be 4 female leads just seems randomly sexist. [And I probably wouldn't call Sif a lead anyway]

I called her a lead because Thor 2 is meant to be very much about Thor, Jane, Sif and the Warrior's Three exploring the other realms... therefore she's likely to play a bigger role... and therefore I don't see much room for a similar female warrior character (inspite of Valkyrie being more of a Thor).

 

And you have to look at Avengers 2, they can't overload it with new Avengers because the film would be far too chaotic.

 

Cap/Thor/IronMan/Hulk/BlackWidow/Hawkeye/Ant-Man/Wasp(?)/DocStrange(hope not)... they've got to stop somewhere...

 

Where would be the sense in having two Asguardian's on the team?... you want diversity between the characters/abilities. For the same reason they didn't put War Machine in the film.

 

Therefore if you introduce Valkyrie, ok fine do it for Thor 3 if it makes sense to, but not with the aim of introducing her for The Avengers.

[chairdriver]

And you have to look at Avengers 2, they can't overload it with new Avengers because the film would be far too chaotic.

 

Cap/Thor/IronMan/Hulk/BlackWidow/Hawkeye/Ant-Man/Wasp(?)/DocStrange(hope not)... they've got to stop somewhere...

 

I guess I'm kinda tacitly working on the assumption that at least 2 of the 6 Avengers from the first film won't return for the second film (Otherwise why not just film Avengers 2 immediately after Avengers, and ride on the momentum of the success?).

 

On the subject, I feel like my favourite Avengers 2 line-up would be:

 

Captain America

Iron Man

Ant-Man

She-Hulk

Valkyrie

Vision

 

Although She-Hulk would be hard to do justice on film, since part of her joke is that she's aware she's in a comic.

Edited May 17, 2012 by chairdriver
Automerged Doublepost

[Retro_Link]

I guess I'm kinda tacitly working on the assumption that at least 2 of the 6 Avengers from the first film won't return for the second film (Otherwise why not just film Avengers 2 immediately after Avengers, and ride on the momentum of the success?).

Think it's fair to say the main four are 100% guaranteed. Black Widow is currently the only female Avenger so you'd think they'd surely keep her (and add a second through Wasp probably), plus Scarlett was so good in the film.

 

Hawkeye is the only character I can see maybe not returning, but do they need him for Black Widow to play off?... probably. If Black Widow was the only 'normal' Avenger it could seem a bit odd; unless they put her directly alongside Cap.

[chairdriver]

Think it's fair to say the main four are 100% guaranteed. Black Widow is currently the only female Avenger so you'd think they'd surely keep her (and add a second through Wasp probably), plus Scarlett was so good in the film.

 

Hawkeye is the only character I can see maybe not returning, but do they need him for Black Widow to play off?... probably. If Black Widow was the only 'normal' Avenger it could seem a bit odd; unless they put her directly alongside Cap.

 

I have a feeling they'll do a Black Widow movie, just to fully capitalise on Scarlett's fame. If they did, I'd be content if they tied up her story (either by death, retirement, whatever) because I feel she's been great in Avengers, and would be great in her movie, and I'd prefer to see someone new in the Avengers line-up.

 

Hawkeye feels like he's really easy to write into any plot, because he's not as problematically powerful as Hulk/Thor/Iron Man, so he could either be there, or not be there, and it'd make no difference. I would usually say Hulk would be better as a stand-alone movie, but the 2 fails suggest otherwise.

 

I feel like the main 4 aren't *certain*, mostly because it'd be easier to write a fresh script with a slightly mixed up cast. Like, Thor could easily go off to Hel and Ant-Man could take his stead and it wouldn't really be that problematic. (Although obviously depends on the success of the Ant-Man movie).

[Retro_Link]

That's my problem with Hawkeye, he's neither here nor there really.

 

I'd like to think the main cast would be interchangable, but how likely is it really.

They've all been such successful franchises, and they're so recognisable now, and for this new audience... can you really see them telling Robert-Downey-Jr/Chris Hemsworth etc... "OK, you're gonna have to sit this one out".

 

A Black Widow movie could be great, but I do wonder whether the character could hold up alone... it seems likely they'd have to include supporting characters to me, just because her abilities would make for far to repetitive scenes/scenarios.

 

I think they're going to give it a go, but I do struggle to see Ant/Giant-Man working in an Avengers movie... Visually I just don't know how it would look having this character hugely out of proportion.

 

Giant-Man could work as a replacement for HULK, but I think HULK was just too popular to leave out/aint gonna happen.

 

Maybe it's what needs to be done to keep the films fresh, but I just think they're gonna have a really hard time interchanging the cast/mixing it up, so I think things will largely stay the same and be added too in Avengers 2. But like you say, is it going to feel to samey? Can they tell another story with these same characters, or will it feel too much like the first film.

[Cube]

What the Avengers is is a superhero team. There's no reason why they had to choose that line up. In fact, I don't think Hulk has ever been on the same Avengers team as Captain America in the comics. To say that it was necessary to have 6 male leads and 1 female lead is false.

 

Captain America - He was the "first avenger" so they can't not have him.

Iron Man - Popular character and a good introduction into the universe as he isn't superpowered.

Thor - Necessary for introducing all the alien stuff.

Hulk - Even with two fairly recent poor films, he's still a hugely popular character.

Black Widow - Female, doesn't require a long introduction.

Hawk-eye - He's some dude, easy to link well with Black Widow (just one "normal" person would have been strange.

 

I think the main four had better reasons than any of the other marvel heroes.

[Mokong]

Where would be the sense in having two Asguardian's on the team?... you want diversity between the characters/abilities. For the same reason they didn't put War Machine in the film.

 

I was only just wondering about the lack of War Machine in The Avengers, even a little mention of him like they did with Jane Foster would have been nice but he was totally ignored.

 

Wonder if they'll reference it in some way in IM3

[Nintendohnut]

Out of the Avengers team, before any of their films, I had heard of Nick Fury, Captain America, Hulk, Hawkeye and Iron Man. I don't really read any comics so I was happy to see the characters I knew of in the film, along with some I didn't know (Black Widow and Maria Hill). I haven't heard of any of the people that Chair is talking about.

 

I'm not saying I'm the same as everyone, but as I don't read comic books I think I'm a relatively average consumer when it comes to comic book films. They included a lot of the heroes I know of and introduced two new female characters well. Any more and it would've been weird, I think.

 

(btw its worth mentioning that I'd heard of plenty of other characters like spidey, Fantastic 4, several X-Men and Superman & Batman, I'm only talking about those in the Avengers franchise for my point above.)

 

What I'm basically saying is that I'm pretty sure they did market research before introducing characters into the film. They went for ones that the most people knew.