Veganism

[Ashley]

 

That is all.

 

Well this explains your relationship with ReZ.

 

Anyway I've been vegan for days. Just as default because I'm vegetarian anyway and housemate is allergic to wheat and dairy so any joint meals tend to become vegan.

 

Speaking of if you do decide to switch let me know and I can ask Jodie where the best food places are or products to recommend (although I'm sure she'd just say Organic Planet).

 

Now I want some nachos...

[EddieColeslaw]

What I've never really understood with veganism and vegetarianism why make food that replicates the look of meat? What's the point of eating a fake sausage exactly? I don't particularly like fish, I sure wouldn't shape my substitute chicken into a fish shape just to fit in.

 

I don't understand that either. I don't like meat, why would I want to eat something that's pretending to be meat? Maybe the manufacturers are trying to cater to people who like meat, but had to stop eating it for whatever reason?

 

If you like it because it tastes good, then cool. But I'd rather have only vegetables in my burger than fake beef/processed soy...

 

To each their own, I suppose

[Daft]

I just want to make sure daft's doing it for the right reasons, not just that he wants the vegan (girl) friend's pants to get lost on his floor somewhere.

 

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

 

That point aside, I just want to give it a go for a couple months. I don't even know if I'll be able to pull it off. I doubt I will. Like I said, I've got nothing to lose.

 

Just curious, why are you considering going straight to veganism? Just give ovo-lacto vegetarianism a go first! (I assume you haven't before due to your love for ingesting dead animals)

 

I dunno. Good question. Ovo-lacto vegetarianism? That sounds like a good starting point.

 

Animal's FTW.

 

 

The concept of "Vegan" annoys me. Its so.....ugh. (Sorry Vegan's)

 

Whhhyyy they annoy you??

Edited June 20, 2011 by Daft

[Slaggis]

A life without cheese is a terrifying prospect.

[Coolness Bears]

Eating meat is wrong. Eat vegetables otherwise I'll bomb your house.

[Happenstance]

Eating meat is wrong. Eat vegetables otherwise I'll bomb your house.

 

Ah good times!

[Ashley]

And there's nothing scarier than a mop-headed Hannah Montana-loving Hello Kitty headphone-wearing bear cub.

[McPhee]

I don't really get the point.

 

Vegetarianism, sure. Cruelty to animals and all that jazz. I don't agree, but I can see where they're coming from.

 

Veganism... egg and dairy farms exploit animals (Sure, OK. Can't disagree with that...) therefore we should stop eating eggs and dairy products. WTH? Just source your eggs and dairy more responsibly. Picking an unfertilised egg up off the ground that some hen has laid is hardly exploitation. Buy some chickens, keep them as pets, give them a good life, eat the eggs. I do not get the exploitation problem there. Similar story with small-scale seasonal production of milk.

 

I know quite a few Vegetarians (including my mother) and can cook some pretty awesome vegetarian meals. I'd struggle to go veggie for more than a few days though, it's all just stodge. After a few days I find myself falling back on eggs and nuts to put some texture back in, and shortly after that I've got a dirty big rib steak sat on my plate that's been slow cooked for 12 hours at 50'C, then slapped on a ridiculously hot grill for 2 minutes each side to char the outsides. About that time I remember why I will never be a veggie.

 

 

Eating meat is wrong. Eat vegetables otherwise I'll bomb your house.

 

Ahh, good times. Pretty sure it was the shop I work in that she wanted to blow up though. Thinking about it now, blowing up all that meat would result in more animals dying to replace the ones destroyed by the bomb. Irony, much?

Edited June 20, 2011 by McPhee

[EddieColeslaw]

Eating meat is wrong. Eat vegetables otherwise I'll bomb your house.

 

Bombs are wrong. Get rid of your bombs or I'll make you eat meat. I mean bombs. Wait...

[Coolness Bears]

Bombs are wrong. Get rid of your bombs or I'll make you eat meat. I mean bombs. Wait...

 

[arab_freak]

It's funny, I just got out of a little debate with a would-be vegan about how she doesn't eat meat because it's "unnatural". I honestly don't see a point to being vegan. If you're doing it because you think it's healthy, well, you're dead wrong. Your body needs meat (especially vitamin B12) and a plant-only diet is deficient.

 

If you're doing it for the animals, well, there's no point in that either. Whether you like it or not, everything you use has animals in it. Human civilization would not have advanced without the use of animals in everyday aspects like pulling a cart after the invention of the wheel. The house you’re sitting in? The walls, your clothes, and all your furniture were put together using animal-based adhesives and materials. The band you like listening to? Their guitars have been glued together with cow/horse hooves and the strings are most likely made out of animal guts. The shopping bag you put your groceries in? It’s been mixed with animal fat to reduce friction. Do you like riding your bike or driving your car? Your tires are made by mixing rubber with animal-based stearic acid. The fabric softener you applied to your clothes? The chloride agent is made from cattle, sheep, and horses. Do you like watching TV or going to the movies? The roll of film that recorded them contains Mylar which comes from animals. Fuck, even your toothpaste, shampoo, and conditioners have animals in them. Your meds? It wouldn’t have been possible to create them without research, development, and testing done on animals.

 

And that’s not counting the fact that every year, millions of animals die during the crop harvest as a result of them getting squished underneath the combines that collect our vegetables from the field. Whether you like it or not, you’re always going to be killing and “exploiting†(as if that were something to be ashamed of) animals. Even someone who thinks they're just trying to "do what they can" and limit the amount of animals that die is seriously mistaken. Either all animals are worth saving, or none of them are. You can't put a value on life like that.

 

"I think vegetarianism is great. I'm a second hand vegetarian myself. Since they're so much more efficient at converting the nutrients in grass to energy I absorb as many vegetables as possible through cows."

 

[EddieColeslaw]

It's funny, I just got out of a little debate with a would-be vegan about how she doesn't eat meat because it's "unnatural". I honestly don't see a point to being vegan. If you're doing it because you think it's healthy, well, you're dead wrong. Your body needs meat (especially vitamin B12) and a plant-only diet is deficient.

 

Disagree. Many dancers and athletes are vegetarian, because it makes their body weight lighter. You cannot argue that people with those professions are likely to be unhealthy overall. You're right about the B12, but you can just take a supplement. Nutritional yeast (popular in the US, but I can't really find it here) is an excellent source of B12. And of course, vegetarians who eat dairy products and eggs should get enough B12. Only a small amount is needed, and some people, whether meat-eaters or not, are likely to be deficient anyway, since it's apparently hard to absorb through a complicated process.

 

I agree with your second paragraph though, which is why I will never become a strict vegan. The most talked-about things to avoid are leather and non-vegan cosmetics, but if you want to be totally vegan you might as well go live in a cave. Or else you're not really 100% vegan. But I guess a lot of people are just vegans in terms of diet.

[arab_freak]

Disagree. Many dancers and athletes are vegetarian, because it makes their body weight lighter. You cannot argue that people with those professions are likely to be unhealthy overall. You're right about the B12, but you can just take a supplement. Nutritional yeast (popular in the US, but I can't really find it here) is an excellent source of B12. And of course, vegetarians who eat dairy products and eggs should get enough B12. Only a small amount is needed, and some people, whether meat-eaters or not, are likely to be deficient anyway, since it's apparently hard to absorb through a complicated process.

 

B12 is almost non-existent from non-animal sources. One of the few potent vegetarian B12 sources is Red Star T-6635+, which costs $30 for 8 oz. If you pay less than $5 for a gallon of soy milk that's been fortified with B12, you're guaranteed to be getting that B12 from an animal source. Same goes for the trace B12 found in spirulina (it comes from insects that are processed along with the algea/bacteria).

 

Soy beans have no vitamin B12 naturally, and the label on Silk Soy simply says "vitamin B12" as an ingredient: http://www.silksoymilk.com/nutriInfo/AsepticPrismaPlain.htm

 

In order to get the RDA of B12 from T-6635, it's recommended that you consume 2 rounded tablespoons full of the stuff (which tastes like cheese, so you can enjoy that cheesy flavor in everything you make with it, even when you don't want it to taste like cheese!), which is equivalent to about 1 fluid oz. 1 gallon of soy milk is equivalent to 128 fluid ounces, so in order for you to get a serving of B12 (assuming an 8 oz bag of T-6635 is diluted in the milk), you'd have to drink 6 cups of soy milk every day. That is, assuming it's from vegetarian sources. Also, it'd add $10-20 to the cost of the milk (T-6635 is commercially available for $30 for 8 oz, so assuming a 100 or 150% markup, it'd still cost Silk around $10 for enough T-6635 per gallon of soy). But since the B12 you're getting in soy milk is very cheap, and fairly plentiful (50% of your RDA per serving), it's unlikely that it comes from a vegetarian/vegan friendly source.

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/972951/posts

[EddieColeslaw]

I didn't mention soymilk, but the snippet you posted is interesting anyway. I'm not vegan myself, so...sucks for them, I guess? :p Though the symptoms of B12 deficiency sound pretty scary, so assuming all vegans don't have gastrointestinal and neurological problems, they must have found some reliable source of B12...?

 

Neither plants nor animals make vitamin B12. Bacteria are responsible for producing vitamin B12. Animals get their vitamin B12 from eating foods contaminated with vitamin B12 and then the animal becomes a source of vitamin B12. Plant foods do not contain vitamin B12 except when they are contaminated by microorganisms or have vitamin B12 added to them. Thus, vegans need to look to fortified foods or supplements to get vitamin B12 in their diet. (http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm)

 

Therefore: nutritional yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae).

 

(I hope I'm not acting the token angry vegetarian here. I don't claim to be an expert or doctor, I'm learning from this thread too! Please feel free to notify me if I am...)

[Ville]

If you're doing it for the animals, well, there's no point in that either. Whether you like it or not, everything you use has animals in it. Human civilization would not have advanced without the use of animals in everyday aspects like pulling a cart after the invention of the wheel. The house you’re sitting in? The walls, your clothes, and all your furniture were put together using animal-based adhesives and materials. The band you like listening to? Their guitars have been glued together with cow/horse hooves and the strings are most likely made out of animal guts. The shopping bag you put your groceries in? It’s been mixed with animal fat to reduce friction. Do you like riding your bike or driving your car? Your tires are made by mixing rubber with animal-based stearic acid. The fabric softener you applied to your clothes? The chloride agent is made from cattle, sheep, and horses. Do you like watching TV or going to the movies? The roll of film that recorded them contains Mylar which comes from animals. Fuck, even your toothpaste, shampoo, and conditioners have animals in them. Your meds? It wouldn’t have been possible to create them without research, development, and testing done on animals.

 

Interesting, thanks for the info

 

And that’s not counting the fact that every year, millions of animals die during the crop harvest as a result of them getting squished underneath the combines that collect our vegetables from the field. Whether you like it or not, you’re always going to be killing and “exploiting†(as if that were something to be ashamed of) animals.

So you think there's nothing wrong with that? Well what separates animals from humans then? Why not kill and exploit them as well?

 

Even someone who thinks they're just trying to "do what they can" and limit the amount of animals that die is seriously mistaken. Either all animals are worth saving, or none of them are. You can't put a value on life like that.

What a pessimistic view! "If you can't save them all, don't save any." Yeah...if we followed that line of reasoning, we might just stop all progress on earth. "Well, we can't cure ALL people, so why even try..." Like wtf, man...

 

Try your best, do what you can. Bring about as much positive change as you can. Even a little is better than nothing!

[ReZourceman]

(In case it wasn't clear, I just wanted to point out that Coolness has won the thread. Twice)

[Happenstance]

Heres a famous little thread about eating habits that some of the newer members may not know about. Sit back and enjoy dynastygals posts (this is what not eating meat does to you!)

 

http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17481

[EEVILMURRAY]

Interesting, thanks for the info

 

So you think there's nothing wrong with that? Well what separates animals from humans then? Why not kill and exploit them as well?

 

What a pessimistic view! "If you can't save them all, don't save any." Yeah...if we followed that line of reasoning, we might just stop all progress on earth. "Well, we can't cure ALL people, so why even try..." Like wtf, man...

I think this video can answer all your questions.

[Sheikah]

Turn vegan, or I'll firebomb your butchers.

[heroicjanitor]

I don't think that you would evolve eating meat for thousands of years, then discover eating no meat is healthier For the vegetarians how many supplements do you take? (the ones that say it is not meant as a replacement for a proper diet :p )

[chairdriver]

Evolution arguments are silly.

[heroicjanitor]

It's not an argument against it, it's why I'm sceptical of it. Tis why I asked about supplements.

[chairdriver]

{No, I mean, using evolution to relate to modern human activity (you're sitting talking to a little black box, remember) / I think we're both confused.}

 

---

 

I really want to feel "lighter". That's the main attraction to vegetarianism for me.

[heroicjanitor]

When related to a way of thinking/behaving evolution arguments aren't good, but talking strictly diet/biological functions I think they are a good starting point at least. I see what you mean though.

[Daft]

It's funny, I just got out of a little debate with a would-be vegan about how she doesn't eat meat because it's "unnatural". I honestly don't see a point to being vegan. If you're doing it because you think it's healthy, well, you're dead wrong. Your body needs meat (especially vitamin B12) and a plant-only diet is deficient.

 

If you're doing it for the animals, well, there's no point in that either. Whether you like it or not, everything you use has animals in it. Human civilization would not have advanced without the use of animals in everyday aspects like pulling a cart after the invention of the wheel. The house you’re sitting in? The walls, your clothes, and all your furniture were put together using animal-based adhesives and materials. The band you like listening to? Their guitars have been glued together with cow/horse hooves and the strings are most likely made out of animal guts. The shopping bag you put your groceries in? It’s been mixed with animal fat to reduce friction. Do you like riding your bike or driving your car? Your tires are made by mixing rubber with animal-based stearic acid. The fabric softener you applied to your clothes? The chloride agent is made from cattle, sheep, and horses. Do you like watching TV or going to the movies? The roll of film that recorded them contains Mylar which comes from animals. Fuck, even your toothpaste, shampoo, and conditioners have animals in them. Your meds? It wouldn’t have been possible to create them without research, development, and testing done on animals.

 

And that’s not counting the fact that every year, millions of animals die during the crop harvest as a result of them getting squished underneath the combines that collect our vegetables from the field. Whether you like it or not, you’re always going to be killing and “exploiting†(as if that were something to be ashamed of) animals. Even someone who thinks they're just trying to "do what they can" and limit the amount of animals that die is seriously mistaken. Either all animals are worth saving, or none of them are. You can't put a value on life like that.

 

"I think vegetarianism is great. I'm a second hand vegetarian myself. Since they're so much more efficient at converting the nutrients in grass to energy I absorb as many vegetables as possible through cows."

 

Srsly, why are those the only possible reasons I would want to do it? I just want to see what it's like. Most vegans/vegetariens say they feel more energetic but I'm not going to know unless I try. I might even expand my pallet while I'm at it. I don't give a rat's ass about animals or the environment. I'm doing it because I want to challenge my assumptions about my diet.