ipaul

How do you solve a problem like North Korea?

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Here's a couple of pictures my uncle sent me in an email, plus some words he wrote about each one..

 

I attach a couple of photos from Pyongyang in May. One is of the school administrator who looked after me every day at the first school. Her smile of welcome every morning genuinely lifted my spirits in order to perform at a higher level and get through the five classes without flagging. A delightful person whom, if I had never disbelieved governments, media and gossip, I should never have met, and then I would have been the poorer.

 

The other photo is of the three amigos, three teachers, myself and one from each of the two schools. Terrific people again; how much fun and laughter we had in the evenings as we talked over the day's teaching or they told me of their own careers from early youth! We also had plenty of fun in the classroom, especially with Mr. Ham, the younger and very dapper teacher on my left. He took up cricket with a vengeance and played with me and the boys every afternoon (Yorkshire's next demon bowler, if they want him!)

 

Although, its certainly terrible that people are starving, but looking past that, this might actually be a good thing in a way. Starving people are much more likely to stand up for themselves and fight back than people who have other options.

 

About this Emasher, my Uncle said, that whilst in Pyongyang it was both shocking and refreshing to see so many smiles on the faces of members of the public. It seemed very genuinely like a happy place to live. People who seemed at peace and content with what they have in life, constantly smiling. Not on the brink of overthrowing a cruel dictatorship.

 

He contrasted this to the way that, since he left for Australia in the mid-Eighties, every time he returns to England the general mood of the people seems to drop more. He can sometimes wander down a major shopping street without seeing anyone who seems genuinely happy. Everyone has a look of worry, concern or anguish and he believes this has gotten worse over time. Not to mention what relatively poor health (espeically the elderly) people seem to be in. In his opinion it's not as bad or 'severe' in Australia.

 

An intersting comparison anyway. Have a look down your steert, are people smiling? Do people seem happy?

Edited by Nicktendo

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It should be noted, Emasher, that the people who are starving don't necessarily see Kim Jong Il as the problem.

 

Do they have any reason to believe that, if their government was different, they wouldn't have hunger problems?

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I understand the people there are brainwashed, but I can't see it lasting forever. Especially when you consider that the military is showing signs that they may take out Kim Jong Un when he takes office. The bubble will burst one day and quite possibly in our lifetimes. When food shortages become that bad, people aren't going to care who the food is coming from.

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I understand the people there are brainwashed, but I can't see it lasting forever. Especially when you consider that the military is showing signs that they may take out Kim Jong Un when he takes office. The bubble will burst one day and quite possibly in our lifetimes. When food shortages become that bad, people aren't going to care who the food is coming from.

 

Do you have a source for that? The article you posted showed that North Koreans were starving, but not how the military felt.

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Do you have a source for that? The article you posted showed that North Koreans were starving, but not how the military felt.

 

It was in a different article. Obviously with a country as secretive as North Korea its all just speculation, but its been a fairly popular theory for a while now. It was a while ago that the speculation was happening, so I don't have any current articles, but you could probably just search for "North Korea Coup" and find something if you really wanted to.

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Low Orbit Ion Cannon

 

When harpoons, air strikes and nukes fail..

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People get fucked over; and if you're not careful it'll happen to you.

 

We can't police the world.

 

 

"Death solves all problems - no man, no problem." - Not Stalin

 

 

In China, if you want more than one kid you're out of luck.

 

At least they're doing something about overpopulation.

 

I also think it's only the Han which this rule applies too; though I'm not too sure on that.

 

Many books and films are banned.

 

Germany being a prime example.

 

In many countries you will not get a fair trial if you are charged with an offence.

 

That's the world over.

 

There are countries that force their citizens to dress in a certain way.

 

*coughfrancecough*

Edited by Kurtle Squad
Automerged Doublepost

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People get fucked over; and if you're not careful it'll happen to you.

 

We can't police the world.

 

 

"Death solves all problems - no man, no problem." - Not Stalin

 

 

 

 

At least they're doing something about overpopulation.

 

I also think it's only the Han which this rule applies too; though I'm not too sure on that.

 

 

 

Germany being a prime example.

 

 

 

That's the world over.

 

 

 

*coughfrancecough*

 

I understand that human rights violations happen the world over, my country (Canada) is particularly bad in many cases, but its much much worse in China. In Germany for instance, they only ban criticizing people who happen to be jewish. You can however still criticize the government if you want to. In China, people go to prison for that. I understand the justice systems throughout the world are designed to screw over the little guy, but the sort of injustices that go on in many of these countries are again much more severe than what happens here. For instance, in China, two factory workers were executed after they put toxic chemicals into milk, however, they didn't know what the chemical was, they were just following orders and putting in the chemicals that they were told to put in. In the first world, something like that wouldn't happen. And again, with the dress code, it tends to be much more severe in the Middle East. France bans wearing face coverings and have a logical reason for doing it, the Muslims force people to completely cover up their bodies and stone them to death if they don't.

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I understand that human rights violations happen the world over, my country (Canada) is particularly bad in many cases, but its much much worse in China. In Germany for instance, they only ban criticizing people who happen to be jewish. You can however still criticize the government if you want to. In China, people go to prison for that. I understand the justice systems throughout the world are designed to screw over the little guy, but the sort of injustices that go on in many of these countries are again much more severe than what happens here. For instance, in China, two factory workers were executed after they put toxic chemicals into milk, however, they didn't know what the chemical was, they were just following orders and putting in the chemicals that they were told to put in. In the first world, something like that wouldn't happen. And again, with the dress code, it tends to be much more severe in the Middle East. France bans wearing face coverings and have a logical reason for doing it, the Muslims force people to completely cover up their bodies and stone them to death if they don't.

 

I only said France because it's a freedom of clothing, which is what you mentioned...

 

I have near zero respect for Germany however.

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About this Emasher, my Uncle said, that whilst in Pyongyang it was both shocking and refreshing to see so many smiles on the faces of members of the public. It seemed very genuinely like a happy place to live. People who seemed at peace and content with what they have in life, constantly smiling.

 

I remember there were a lot of happy people in Brave New World.

 

Jus' saying.

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I only said France because it's a freedom of clothing, which is what you mentioned...

 

I don't blame you, it was an easy argument to make.

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Almost made a new thread for this, good thing I remembered there was one a while back. Sorry for bumping!

 

----

 

So Best Korea is at it again. Although I think sanctions are an incredibly stupid idea with regimes like this thanks to the fact all it does is harm the populace than those in charge, North Korea has a very strong yet very stupid response.

 

North Korea said in a statement on Tuesday said it would end the truce on 11 March due to UN sanctions and military exercises in South Korea.

BBC article

 

What makes this incredibly amusing is the recent interviews conducted with Dennis Rodman, who claimed "Kim Jong-Un doesn't want war". Footage of the interview here.

 

We all know what's most likely going to happen is that the day is going to pass and nothings going to happen. But fuck, I wish they'd just posture a little too much and SK, or more realistically China, just steps in before anything gets out of hand. Some one needs to finally step up and do something for the people of North Korea, but of course, there's no profit to be made so that seems to be off the cards, even for the country that thinks itself as the saviour of the world.

 

My only worry is that North Korea has its own equivalent of Israel's much hypothesised "Samson Option" and has measures to automatically decimate cities within its range if harm is done to them internally. Which would suck ass, but not limited to the fact I'm very much in range.

 

Place bets now?

Edited by Debug Mode

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Ah, this thread.

 

 

Why not make a new thread? Surely adding your post to 8 pages of old posts is just going to discourage discussion. "Somebody will have already said that" etc.

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Ah, this thread.

 

 

Why not make a new thread? Surely adding your post to 8 pages of old posts is just going to discourage discussion. "Somebody will have already said that" etc.

 

A good point, but I figured some one would probably merge it or call out a similar thread existing so I figured I'd play it safe by just putting it in the original thread.

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tumblr_mjbkbkHRyu1qh3u28o1_400.png

 

Can't say I'm comfortable with our current news priorities.

 

On the international page it says the ending of the peace pact is currently the most popular, strange. I am far more interested in the Bieber story though, did he die?

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N Korea ends peace pacts with South

 

brb, finding bunker

 

Is there really a danger? It would be damn stupid.

 

Let's say the North actually attempts to re-invade the South:

 

America must by obligation come to their aid, Japan will stick their oar in as it's right in their back yard. World condemns the act of aggression fron DPRK. America decides to just "finish the job" that they left hanging last time. North overwhelmed within about two-three months.

 

Oh wait, forgot about the key to this: China.

 

China won't be keen to see American troops on her doorstep, but neither can China retain credibility in her "peaceful rise" if they support the DPRK in any way. Neighbours are already extremely wary of China's intentions to develop a modernised army - Taiwan feels threatened, so do the Philippinnes, Japan, Vietnam and Malaysia. If China swaggers any more, then these neighbours arejust going to come right out and start actively balancing against China, which risks further escalation. However, in the context of International Relations theory, it all makes perfect sense.

 

So China has a choice: support DPRK and end up figthing a war. Try to rein in DPRK, but defer the current crisis to a later date (because it will happen) accept a unified peninsula and America on the doorstep.

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I still believe North Korea could be a wonderful utopia. I heard that when they were recently targeting other countries their first target was for the Free Masonry in America.

 

*oh no, here I come again with his Illuminati jargon*

 

OF COURSE the west could all too easily be using the media as a form to put us against N. Korea, the only country refusing to conform. I mean, how else do we find out about world news -- it's all the media. N. Korea could be the single entity wanting to bring down the Illuminati.

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There are a lot of suspicious things about how the world turns and how we're conditioned to view things, but I think your idea is just a bit too "out there" for me Frank. The one thing that's got me thinking lately is how the world reacts to certain countries having nuclear programs yet doesn't batter an eye lid at some other countries who have yet to officially claim to any nuclear weapons despite overwhelming evidence they have them.

 

Back on topic though, the only real reason this is causing alarm is the fact that the North has cut off their hot line to the South, which is something they've never done before. But as I mentioned somewhat earlier in the thread, I'm concerned they have something along the lines of the "Samson Option", which is basically mutually assured destruction but to make down as many parties, related or not, with them. With a regime like the North, I can't help the feeling that some thing is going to snap sooner or later and they're going wreak as much havoc faced with the inevitability of losing power.

 

It would be beneficial for China to step in, but I can imagine they don't like the prospect of an influx of refugees.

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There are a lot of suspicious things about how the world turns and how we're conditioned to view things, but I think your idea is just a bit too "out there" for me Frank. The one thing that's got me thinking lately is how the world reacts to certain countries having nuclear programs yet doesn't batter an eye lid at some other countries who have yet to officially claim to any nuclear weapons despite overwhelming evidence they have them.

 

Which countries in particular? Iran? There's no concrete evidence as yet. I think NATO is wary of launching a pre-emptive strike similar to Operation Iraqi Freedom (I hate that name) on only tenuous evidence.

 

Another consideration in this is that along with the DPRK and Sudan, Iran is a "punishment proxy" for China - China can use its engagement with Iran as leverage in negotiations with the USA.

 

Even so, China would be wary of alienating the regime as more than 10% of their oil imports come from Iran.

 

Another consideration is whether or not a state has signed the NPT - Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty: i.e. they will not spread the knowledge they have of nuclear arms or attempt to develop them if they don't have them. If a country hasn't signed on, then there's no normative framework within which to punish them, and even then, there is a debate as to whether or not punishment is fair given that many states already possess nuclear weapons.

 

Back on topic though, the only real reason this is causing alarm is the fact that the North has cut off their hot line to the South, which is something they've never done before. But as I mentioned somewhat earlier in the thread, I'm concerned they have something along the lines of the "Samson Option", which is basically mutually assured destruction but to make down as many parties, related or not, with them. With a regime like the North, I can't help the feeling that some thing is going to snap sooner or later and they're going wreak as much havoc faced with the inevitability of losing power.

 

That's the catch there : In a conventional war, the winner would not be the DPRK, and you can guarantee that when the regime falls, there will be a reckoning. Faced with annihilation, chances are they will push the red button.

 

It would be beneficial for China to step in, but I can imagine they don't like the prospect of an influx of refugees.

 

 

That's certainly a consideration. But it would be likely that any refugees could be repatriated in the mid-long term.

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God damn this issue really is complex. Maybe one of those Illuminati shmucks can instigate a revolution from within eh? Seems to work in the middle east, or so the theory goes :laughing:

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