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James McGeachie

2-3 times more powerful than Gamecube, now basically confirmed

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To be honest, if the console is going to cost as little as $150 at launch, I'm deffinately willing to buy it no matter what the graphics look like. It's all going to be about the gameplay with Revolution. If you want high power graphics, then get another more expensive console. The games will deffinately look better, that's for sure. And with similar chip design to the gamecube, the games are going to come a lot faster too. I can see the Revolution getting far more new releases in it's first 6 months than either the PS3 or Xbox 360 will simply due to ease of use.

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It's more of a novelty way of portable gaming, imo. Not many games use the touchpad to its full potential. And I don't think PSP is unsucessful, it's not as good as it could be though.

 

All it needs is a little push from the marketing team, and a price cut. Sony themselves don't really seem to care either, which is worrying! As long as PSP meets its target of 14 million units sold my March, it's a success in their books.

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It looks a hell of a lot better than DS though, in terms of graphical power, and the controls are much more comfortable - it's only let down by its lack of that many quality games, same as the DS.

 

But Sony were very clever with the PSP, as you can play video on it - when Sony's new movie download site goes online, the PSP is going to be the only format you can transfer the films onto. And in the US and Japan, TiVo (the PVR) is also developing technology where the box will auto-save video files onto your PSP and iPod. Nintendo DS doesn't really have such feature, and the Play Yan is limited in its uses.

 

Back to Revolution, I can't say I'm "happy" that the Revolution doesn't have graphical capabilities similar to Xbox 360, but for a system that doesn't want to be Number 1 on the market, I guess the bargain-basementness of the system will generate sales.

Of course it does, still the DS was my choice because it's diferent, graphics-wise of course the PSP is better.

 

PSP is a multimedia machine, you call it clever, I find it desperate to try to sell UMD videos for 20€, and memory cards and other things sold by sony, it's focus is not really games, sure you're not obliged to buy them, but by that price you can get a much better portable video player, like a PDA with a good GPU, or even the GPX2; with Sony saying the 640x480p standard DVD is not enough for our homes and we need bluray... having a UMD film with a resolution of 480x272 pixels non-progressive-scan is not very coherent, is it?

I for one dislike 16:9 screen ratio for films and being the PSP 16:9 i'd rather have a 4:3 device who happen to cost less with 640x480 resolutions.

 

PSP in those "gimmick features, is a jack of all trades, it does them all... but not as good as a specific device designed for them.

 

I'm happy with revolution as long as I like the games, also the diference wont be as big as some think, the revolution CPU must be pretty close to Xenon in Xbox 360 in single threaded performance and we will dont know if it is a dual core.

 

Gamecube has a 4-7 stage design Xenon has almost 30 (don't remember the exact number) so if Revolution keeps the 4-7 stage it'll be very efficient, it may keep up in single core.

 

Mind you that no game at launch uses the other two threads present in Xbox 360, if revolution comes close in single thread and has another thread it'll likely be able to keep up all this gen slighly behind, that is, if the GPU is good enough.

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As for the PSP... it's a multimedia machine, you say clever, I find it desperate to try to sell UMD videos for 20€, sure you're not obliged to buy them, but by that price you can get a much better portable video player, like a PDA with a good GPU, or even the GPX2; with Sony saying the 640x480p standard DVD is not enough for our homes and we need bluray... having a UMD film with a resolution of 480x272 pixels non-progressive-scan is not very coherent, is it? I for one dislike 16:9 screen ratio for films and being the PSP 16:9 i'd rather have a 4:3 device who happen to cost less with 640x480 resolutions.

1) The reason for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray has actually more to do with TV than films. Because most US television shows are filmed in high definition, and because they broadcast in HD, their DVDs are somewhat dissapointing as they look poor compared to the broadcasts. They lose colours, and aren't are detailed, as the shows have to be downsized to the standard DVD disk confines.

 

With Blu-Ray disks, DVD companies have the option of having their movies/TV shows in full quality. They also have enough room on the disk to eliminate the need for a second disk. Blu-Ray disks are capable of holding up to 50GB at the moment (potentially, up to 200GB in the future), and the cost of producing them is not that much different to normal DVDs.

 

It's worth noting that only blockbuster films will actually be released in Blu-Ray at first, because normal DVDs are fine for the less quality-needed productions. With a Blu-Ray player, you can play both standard DVDs and BR DVDs.

2) UMDs are the new Sony disks. They're first big use was with the PSP, but they have potential to be used for storage devices, once Sony complete work on their writer devices. They can potentially be used as 21st Century floppy-disks, as they are quick to load files off of, and are versatile in use.

 

3) The 16:9 ratio is something of a personal preference. As most films are 16:9. it makes more a more cinematic experience.

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With Blu-Ray disks, DVD companies have the option of having their movies/TV shows in full quality. They also have enough room on the disk to eliminate the need for a second disk. Blu-Ray disks are capable of holding up to 50GB at the moment (potentially, up to 200GB in the future), and the cost of producing them is not that much different to normal DVDs.
Is not "slightly" more expensive than a DVd it has lots of layers, and it requires new factories to be build, HD-DVD by instance takes 40 GB and can use the same factories who already do DVD's with a small upgrade, not nearly as expensive

 

Also 65 GB bluray are already possible. Sony plans to use the good old MPEG2... if they were to use H264 (mpeg4 lossless) it would take less space (a regular High Definition film with lossless encoding could even fit a dual layered DVD) let alone a HD-DVD.

 

For me Bluray is a step behind if it becomes standard and a tentative from Sony to get the rights and recieve money for every bluray sold, just like DVD forum did, as they have multiple interests in doing that it's a tentative to create a monopoly with advantages only to them, ... It is not good for us, in my opinion.

 

the UMD should have at least DVD quality, if not... it's worse than the standard Sony wants to implement, for their own interests.

 

anyway, this is all offtopic :)

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Sony making money from Blu-Ray is called business - learn to accept it. Sony is an electronics company first, gaming company second.

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Some more news about specs:

 

http://eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62069

 

"You can basically treat it like a current generation machine," one told us. "The time it'll take to ramp up to developing on this is basically nil - we can just work on a PC or maybe an Xbox, and then improve the quality of our assets when we move to the Revolution. Or even work on a Cube, in fact. The libraries are very similar."

 

"We could do a game for this in a few months," commented another developer. "Developing games is going to be easy, the challenge is going to be using the controller properly."

 

In terms of RAM, the system is well-known to boast 512MB of Flash RAM which can be used to store save games and downloaded content, but this will not be accessible to developers, we were told. What they'll have available is 96MB of main memory, built on the same 1T-SRAM architecture as the Cube, and "a few megs here and there for other stuff" - such as 3MB of on-board memory on the graphics chip, which will be used for a frame buffer. "That's plenty, since the Revolution isn't supporting HDTV," one developer added.

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Yeah but Sony already won 80% of the Hollywood studios support Bluray. Then the PS3 with a Bluray drive and you are done team HD-DVD.

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With the PS3, Sony has killed two birds with one stone - actually, make that 3 or 4 birds with one stone. The PS3 is a games system for gaming, a Blu-Ray player, the first system to use the Cell processor and a Wi-Fi Media Centre for the net on your TV and stuff. By having it both the next games system, and a Blu-Ray player, they've tapped into two important markets - the gamers and the film goers. Families who want the best home entertainment system will get the PS3, not just because it does games, but because its Blu-Ray.

 

A Blu-Ray player alone would cost £500 minimum, so those who want one will get a PS3, because that only retails at around £300. If families get a PS3, they save themselves money, and on-top of that they've also got a gaming system with it. Sony knows that this will be the case in many households, and even though they're losing money, they know many families will go "well, it is a game system, let's get the kids a few games". The PS3 is the ultimate partnership between different Sony departments, and that's why it won't fail.

 

If Nintendo wanted to have some influence in the gaming world, it really needed to step-up its game. Do its innovative stuff, but still provide a competitive system. It's a shame the company wants to "do" its own thing, but I guess Nintendo really wants to go into another direction. I just hope it finds its audience to do so...

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From NintendoNow

 

While anxious gamers await news and information regarding the Nintendo Revolution, Nintendo's fans and even the media have begun filling in the missing blanks with much unwarranted conjecture resulting in a serious misconception. I will clarify this misconception using simple logic, reasoning and precedence.

 

Recently, a few developers let it be known that the Revolution will have graphics barely more impressive than the GameCube. This is the misconception that has fans worried that their new home console won't live up to 'next gen' standards set by the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

 

What most publishers that have reported this story have failed to mention is that developers are currently using advanced GameCube development kits as a starting point until they receive actual Revolution development kits. Obviously, we cannot expect an advanced GameCube development kit to produce next generation graphics - hence the comment by the developers. Again, most developers are not yet working on actual Revolution hardware. Let's also remember the two key players behind the design of the Revolution's CPU and GPU: IBM and ATi, respectively. Both companies are developing brand new chips for the Revolution. IBM is in charge of creating 'Broadway' and ATi is designing 'Hollywood'. Now I ask you, do you believe that either company would create processors from the ground up if they were only going to be marginally more powerful than the chips these same companies created for the GameCube in 2000?

 

Finally, a bit of history comes into play. Nintendo has always downplayed graphics, yet somehow has always had the most powerful home console of its generation (the Xbox being the sole exception -- however, with Microsoft spending approximately $475.00 to manufacture each Xbox at launch, compared to the approximate $209.00 it cost Nintendo to manufacture each GameCube at the same time, the slighty underpowered specs were a warranted trade-off for the cheaper price point). Still, Nintendo consoles have always cost less than competing systems while providing more bang for the buck hardware-wise.

 

In closure, don't believe the anti-hype. Don't fall victim to illogical speculation. Nintendo, IBM and ATi will deliver a console that not only plays games incredibly well, but will display them beautifully. Just for the record, I'd gladly pay the anticipated $199.99 launch cost, even if the graphics didn't change much over the current generation; the gameplay is worth the price of admission alone.

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Everything you said

 

Nintendo makes games, so they want a system that's capable, inovative, cheap and easy to program for.

 

Sony makes movies, so they want a system that plays their movies in their media, they dont give a shit about games.

 

Personaly, won't pay for a system thats 1000€ (dont know how much it is in £, but it cannot be cheap), just to see some movies, and maybe some good games that takes a consoles life to make.

I don't know whats your idea of the revolution graphics but, seing what they've done with the cube I really think they can make RE5 graphics (If I'm wrong prove me), there will be a time, when the diference is so minimal, that all that extra raw power will be useless

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I really hope they were only talking about the advanced GC development kits. I don't want Revo to be so weak compared to the others. I would be quite happy with a 2.5Ghz 64-bit CPU.

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Just to remind people (because they seem to be forgetting) that this cam from a

anumynous develepor and the dev kits are slighly better GC dec kids.

These from IGN propaly came from a janitor in some computer company....

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i dont think nintendo make things up when they say the graphics are comparable to the others, im sure they will make it so its easier to port, aswell as it being an extension on the cube dev kits, wont developers be used to them already? resi 4 graphics will be a piece of piss with launch titles, i aint complaining, i aint spending £45 on laggy shits, with wet looking graphics and poor framerate...hell no. and this proves how much u guys are graphics whore. if u want good graphics go watch a movie like the hulk or something

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i dont think nintendo make things up when they say the graphics are comparable to the others, im sure they will make it so its easier to port, aswell as it being an extension on the cube dev kits, wont developers be used to them already? resi 4 graphics will be a piece of piss with launch titles, i aint complaining, i aint spending £45 on laggy shits, with wet looking graphics and poor framerate...hell no. and this proves how much u guys are graphics whore. if u want good graphics go watch a movie like the hulk or something
:bowdown:

finally (15 character limit)

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From NintendoNow

 

While anxious gamers await news and information regarding the Nintendo Revolution, Nintendo's fans and even the media have begun filling in the missing blanks with much unwarranted conjecture resulting in a serious misconception. I will clarify this misconception using simple logic, reasoning and precedence.

 

Recently, a few developers let it be known that the Revolution will have graphics barely more impressive than the GameCube. This is the misconception that has fans worried that their new home console won't live up to 'next gen' standards set by the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

 

What most publishers that have reported this story have failed to mention is that developers are currently using advanced GameCube development kits as a starting point until they receive actual Revolution development kits. Obviously, we cannot expect an advanced GameCube development kit to produce next generation graphics - hence the comment by the developers. Again, most developers are not yet working on actual Revolution hardware. Let's also remember the two key players behind the design of the Revolution's CPU and GPU: IBM and ATi, respectively. Both companies are developing brand new chips for the Revolution. IBM is in charge of creating 'Broadway' and ATi is designing 'Hollywood'. Now I ask you, do you believe that either company would create processors from the ground up if they were only going to be marginally more powerful than the chips these same companies created for the GameCube in 2000?

 

Finally, a bit of history comes into play. Nintendo has always downplayed graphics, yet somehow has always had the most powerful home console of its generation (the Xbox being the sole exception -- however, with Microsoft spending approximately $475.00 to manufacture each Xbox at launch, compared to the approximate $209.00 it cost Nintendo to manufacture each GameCube at the same time, the slighty underpowered specs were a warranted trade-off for the cheaper price point). Still, Nintendo consoles have always cost less than competing systems while providing more bang for the buck hardware-wise.

 

In closure, don't believe the anti-hype. Don't fall victim to illogical speculation. Nintendo, IBM and ATi will deliver a console that not only plays games incredibly well, but will display them beautifully. Just for the record, I'd gladly pay the anticipated $199.99 launch cost, even if the graphics didn't change much over the current generation; the gameplay is worth the price of admission alone.

 

well thank god that that has cleared up some unwanted speculation. But the only problem is that IGN have already set off the bomb and the fall out can be seen all over the internet.

If nintendo was smart they would address this point immediately by sending out a nintendo rep tro once again re-iterate that 'there will be no significant difference between the revo's GFX and there competitors'.

Or have you all forgotten that already?

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People should lighten up about the tech specs. Nintendo has been around long enough to know what they are doing. They've had the technically superior consoles, but more power does not mean jack. We all know that really.

 

The Revolution will be powerful enough to satisfy 9/10 of us. Think double/triple of Resi 4 and Twilight Princess. More than good enough.

 

History tells us that developers take a while if ever to harnest the full potential of consoles. Only a handful of games can genuinely say that they have pushed the GC to its limits.

 

I think the Revolution will have no problem looking better than the launch titles of the xbox 360. Having the horsepower is one thing. Utilising it is another.

 

Resident Evil 4, Twilight Princess, Maybe the Metroid games, Star Fox Adventures, and maybe F-Zero GX. Not many others have.

 

Think game studios - Namco is a good example. Not a graphic whore for sure. Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos, Star Fox Assault, Donkey Konga, Ridge Racer Revolution - none even come close to pushing the GC's graphical musle.

 

Silicon Knights Eternal Darkness, and Twin Snakes could have been much better visually.

 

If we look at the actual games, which ones actually require lifelike visuals. Not Mario, not sonic, not pacman, not monkey ball, not ikaruga, not pikmin, not fifa, not iss, not street fighter. You get the idea. Perhaps 90% of games will not need the power.

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You know Dilli Gee, if you remember Sony hasn't really ever won these kind of battles.

 

Betamax and VHS

DVD+ and DVD-

Memory Stick and SD

Now HD-DVD and Bluray.

 

If history has taught us anything, Sony loses... because they are pricks.

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You know Dilli Gee, if you remember Sony hasn't really ever won these kind of battles.

 

Betamax and VHS

DVD+ and DVD-

Memory Stick and SD

Now HD-DVD and Bluray.

 

If history has taught us anything, Sony loses... because they are pricks.

maybe, because sometimes the business they made don't give advantages to the others...

 

for example HP droped BluRay support, HD-DVD spec for production is already finished and will likely come out first, etc etc.

 

also as far as I know not 80% of the studios went and sign for bluray, if I was to make that post i'd post sources to proove it, which I always did since this thread started and gave me much work, it's useless to answer to people who don't even know their stuff/proove it (that is basics of internet, and should be done in the first place without others asking for it).

 

Secondly even if the studios gave their aprooval what about the media manufacters aswell as hardware?

 

Toshiba is still making the HD DVD stuff, HP backed down, Microsoft is clearly planning only on supporting HD DVD unless they are abliged to, and you know what was the paper of windows in the battle of DVD-R (who paid right to DVD forum) and DVD+R (who paid no rights), it supported DVD+R better offering open sessions with the data being recognized etc etc...

 

A HD DVD could offer the same quality with the media being cheaper the lens being cheaper as it uses the same wave lengh the regular DVD laser does, the hardware being cheaper... it could be cheaper in each and every point, much better for the consumer.

 

I'm not liking PS3 in that Bluray point, the rest I've got nothing against it.

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If we look at the actual games, which ones actually require lifelike visuals. Not Mario, not sonic, not pacman, not monkey ball, not ikaruga, not pikmin, not fifa, not iss, not street fighter. You get the idea. Perhaps 90% of games will not need the power.

They may not "need" it, but the game developers will still use the power to make their games of that quality. Why settle for second best?

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I just don't see people beeing turned off by Revo's lack of muscle compared to the other two competitors.

 

Once apon a time, I used to think different.. and I was kind of dreading DS's release in europe, thinking "Great, an amazingly imaginative piece of kit is going to be ignore for the sake of Sony's offering..." I am happily eating my words, which has awakened me to something that I think will spell a sucess for Revolution. Power isn't everything! Its a simple statement but it seems true enough for the DS, which outsells the PSP in nearly every region. With its DIFFERENT interface, its CHEAP price point and obviously the bells and whistles it has found a place in a hell of a lot of homes since its launch. The same will happen for Revolution I think.

 

People are going to see games that will only work on Revo... just like they did with Nintendogs on the DS. They are going to see an incredibly tempting price for a discreet little box and say "Why not?".

 

People say they can't afford two consoles. Well by NEXT GEN pricing standards the Revo only equates to just about HALF the price of the Standard Xbox 360 package (If IGN's dirt digging be believed) so it won't be much to save up for will it? I certainly do not believe that any one person would NEED to choose one console and stick to it. Not if they have their own income anyway.

 

back to the PSP briefly, another thing that the DS has proved is Coexistence. DS and PSP are just so different that they hardly really compete in the same field. I think PSP is more in a tug-o-war with Apple and other Media Playing devices than it is GBA and DS. Both handhelds sell well, they exsist together WELL. I don't think either is really doing either one harm. Just keeping the other on its toes.

 

I think the same thing can happen for Revo. Although the console market is a far more crowded place than handheld, coexsistence can still happen. Hopefully with Nintendo constantly stating their path ISN'T to battle Sony and Microsoft with BEASTLY Tech people will start to listen, looking for other things in the Revolution. It IS competition, but its also so completely different that even if you DID own the 360 or PS3.. You would be warrenting the purchase of Rev purely for the unique entertainment it offers.

 

Whether this is just wishful thinking or Fact, waiting to happen I really don't know... I know what I would like to happen, and we can only really wait and see.

 

Oh, and one last thing. Lets not worry about LOW numbers just yet. I want to see what the games LOOK like to pass judgement. Although the numbers can tell us a lot of what to expect, it hardly paints the image we are gonna se when we boot up the software... so lets Wait... and Literally SEE ^^

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also as far as I know not 80% of the studios went and sign for bluray, if I was to make that post i'd post sources to proove it, which I always did since this thread started and gave me much work, it's useless to answer to people who don't even know their stuff/proove it (that is basics of internet, and should be done in the first place without others asking for it).

Source: http://www.blu-ray.com (if you cannot find the information, simply Google it)

 

Film and Television companies supporting Blu-Ray:

- Sony Pictures, MGM Studios, Columbia Tristar

- Disney, Buena Vista, ABC, ESPN, Touchstone, Jetix

- Miramax, Dimension Films

- Warner Brothers, New Line Cinema, Village Roadshow, The WB, DC Comics

- Twentieth Century Fox, Fox TV, FX, Fox News, Fox DVD, Pathe, Fox 2000

- Universal Studios, NBC, Sci-Fi Channel

- Paramount, MTV, VH1

- Lions Gate Films and Entertainment

 

The above forms well over 80% of Hollywood.

 

Other companies supporting Blu-Ray:

- Sony BMG/Epic Music

- Universal Music

- Warner Music

- Apple Computers

- BanDai

- Electronic Arts

- Mitsubishi

- Panasonic

- Phillips

- Pioneer

- Samsung

- JVC

- LG

- Sharp

- Yamaha

- Zenith

- HP (the copyright issue has been resolved, and Sony has made the modifications)

- Dell

- BenQ

- Maxell

- TDK

- Verbatim

 

As you can quite clearly see, Blu-Ray has the support of almost every key player in home entertainment.

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Source: http://www.blu-ray.com (if you cannot find the information, simply Google it)

 

Film and Television companies supporting Blu-Ray:

 

 

The above forms well over 80% of Hollywood.

 

Other companies supporting Blu-Ray:

 

 

As you can quite clearly see, Blu-Ray has the support of almost every key player in home entertainment.

fair enough, thanks for the information, but I have some doubts, those manufacters (i'm having TDK in mind) also support HD DVD don't they? it's not like it's exclusive support to bluray, they'll support the one who wins, whoever it is.

 

As for HP, I think HP is neutral right now the issues were resolved but HP was not satified, so they took their support, that was back in october, i don't know if they backed up since then.

 

Thanks, I'm not really into the HD-DVD/Bluray news lately, so I'd apreciate if you shed some light into it, the thing i'm not backing up is my opinion, I find Bluray a step back for the market and us consumers, I read enough about it and I have my opinion made.

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Actually, most of the hardware electronic companies i've listed are actually making Blu-Ray components and players.

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getting back on topic...

 

GS: So let's start off. You guys obviously have the advantage of being last. You've seen what the other guys have got, you've seen Sony's next-gen console and Microsoft's. So how do you think the Revolution is going to stack up to those?

 

GH: Oh, Revolution I think will have really no problem standing up to them. Sony spent so much time focused on technical specs, it's like they threw in the kitchen sink trying to compete with Microsoft. So for us, we're going to have plenty of power and plenty of capability in the Revolution, but the real thinking and the real value come in the creative game development, and that for us is what's really going to separate the three consoles.

 

GS: They are putting a lot of emphasis on power. But USA Today said that the Revolution is only going to be two or three times more powerful than the GameCube. Can you give me those details?

 

GH: Yeah, well we haven't released any of the technical specs. We're working with IBM and ATI, so certainly all the capability that we need is there right in our development partners. We try to figure out how to strike a balance between giving the developers everything that they need to make great games, and not having it be so much that they have to spend inordinate amounts of money. In the end it has to be a business. Publishers have to be able to create the game and sell it effectively, and be able to then support the next game.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/26/news_6126595.html

 

May 26th, 2005...

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