[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Beverage]

The art style in that video isn't too bad, I suppose. I've really got my toes crossed that they just hopefully use that sexy Wiiu demo style. Its marvelous game turned me on!

[Fused King]

HOLY FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's the kind of awesome artstyle I'd like to see!

HOLY FUCK!

THAT IS,....SWEET JESUS ONE OF MY BALLS EXPLODED!

[Burny]

Indeed excellent for a fan video. The one thing that doesn't fit in at all, is toon Link though.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Burny

[Mokong]

I'd agree with Burny, Link stands out a bit too much from to rest of teh art syle, like he's in one artsyle and everything else is in another.

 

But my god that would be awesome if that was a real game.

 

If Nintendo were to go for something like that though I would imagine it more likely to appear on the 3DS than the WiiU

[Ronnie]

I've really got my toes crossed that they just hopefully use that sexy Wiiu demo style. Its marvelous game turned me on!

 

You can't expect that level of OTT detail and polish for every part of a 45 hour long game. Of course it looked stunning, but it was a tech demo showing off one room, of course it looked amazing.

 

Thankfully, both previous Zelda tech demos looked nothing like the end result. I suspect Zelda Wii U won't either

[Beverage]

^ Yeah that's true. That one room did give me all sorts of fantasies

But throughout the entire game (hopefully 60hours ) hopefully it should still look wiisonably gorgeous.

 

And as likely as it seems that the Wiiu Zelda will explore another art style direction, which ever route it takes I have faith it'll look most splendid. As I forever keep reiterating; I just hope that they take which ever art style that they opt for to maximum level - or near enough! (in other words, I want to see the passion )

[Cube]

I think what @Ronnie was meaning with the word forcing may have related to this: "sexy visual can help to make things more engaging, compelling, emotional" which is complete bullshit. Just because a game looks better may make it more appealing sure, but more compelling? Emotional? Fuck no.

 

But surely much more detailed facial expressions and a greater range of animation (in terms of characters and lansdape) helps bring everything to life - therefore making it more compelling and emotional?

 

Sure, it's not simply better visuals that do this (it doesn't really add any depth to Modern Warefare, for example) but when used correctly it can be a great aid, not only in making a game look impressive, but making the overall feel of the game much better. Uncharted is an example of how "HD graphics" can do much more than simply make a game look nicer.

[Ronnie]

"helps bring everything to life" so, window dressing. Skyward Sword had excellent subtle facial expressions, but let's say they were even better, as well as the animations. How would that fix the issues in the game?

 

A lot of people seem to be putting too much emphasis on art style, or graphics horsepower when the problems that need fixing are at the core of the gameplay, NOT something that's supposedly instantly fixed with the jump up to HD.

[Cube]

I don't have much of a problem with the core gameplay, except for a couple of bits of padding. Other than Nintendo making more dungeons, the only other thing would be to make more "epic" set-pieces to make the "padded" sequenced more entertaining.

 

Nintendo just need to use the correct aspects of the previous games. Skyward Sword's combat, a mix of Ocarina and Wind Waker's exploration, Majora's character interaction and sidequests, etc.

[Fused King]

Satoru Iwata:

 

Having said that, however, as I mentioned, it is true that, in some software areas, we need to be engaged in the power games. Take The Legend of Zelda franchise, for example, the fans must be looking for the graphic representations that they do not see as cheap at all when the title is released for the Wii U. When it is necessary, we do not hesitate to role out our resources.â€

 

So now that HD is here, Iwata sees the Zelda franchise as a franchise which should adopt fleshed out, dare I say, 'realistic' graphics because 'us fans are looking for that'

 

I can see where he's coming from, for now that Zelda can finally be in HD (+plus taking that E3 trailer into consideration) I bet we'd all like to see how zelda would look in a realistic/fantasy style.

 

On the other hand, I love experimental/unique artstyles, but it's funny that a Zelda game in the way described above would indeed be unique to the series.

 

Hencetoforthwith, I fully endorse a realistic fantasy graphic style for the next The Legend of Zelda game.

 

and @Ronnie, I'm just talking about graphics here now, I do not deny that faults in the series need to be looked at. Don't hurt me :3

[Grazza]

For me, technical prowess is directly linked to how good the Zelda games have been, with Majora's Mask and Wind Waker the most advanced. It's things like having a timer keeping count of what time of day it is, which day it is (out of 3) or which moon cycle it is. Or having a connected overworld with no noticeable loading times. Of course, processing power doesn't automatically make a good game, but it does give it a better headstart.

 

Graphics and visual style are something different. Personally, I don't take sides between realistic or cartoony, but the Wii U demo is simply the best I've seen so far, so it seems unwise not to use it. There's no reason the whole game couldn't look and play like that. Textures can be re-used. The game can't be full of complex buildings like that, but then Zelda games aren't anyway.

 

To be fair to Skyward Sword, it did get some things absolutely right, like everything about Skyloft, most of all the Bazaar. At the end of the day, technology isn't a magic solution, but it gives a better chance of a good game. It doesn't help that so many reviews called it a "10/10 masterpiece", when there is now something of a consensus about the problems. Or that fans were so hostile to the better reviews that gave it 7/10, or even the 9/10 reviews that were very accurate about the flaws.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Grazza

[Ronnie]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but technical prowess should be the icing on the cake of a good Zelda game. Having a clock that knows what time of day it is or what phase the moon it is has nothing to do with the technology, it has to do with the creativity of crafting a living and breathing Zelda world, nothing to do with next gen HD graphics horsepower. Majora's Mask had limited hardware and yet it was a triumph in terms of what you're talking about. Less loading times is nothing ground breaking and just a natural progression with each passing console.

 

One of the biggest complaints about Skyward Sword is the hand-holding and linearity of the gaming world which were both a step down from previous games on less powerful consoles. Better tech won't fix either of those issues, nor will it fix many of the others from TP and SS. The direction will. The added processing power will just (hopefully) make what will (hopefully) be better designed and implemented gameplay... look stunning.

 

Satoru Iwata:

 

So now that HD is here, Iwata sees the Zelda franchise as a franchise which should adopt fleshed out, dare I say, 'realistic' graphics because 'us fans are looking for that':laughing

 

And yet and and Aonuma agreed that Wind Waker/Skyward Sword style visuals suit Zelda games best. I don't see where he mentions anything to do with 'realistic' graphics anyway.

[Beverage]

What I want to know, yeah, is why that specific art style was chosen to flaunt off at E3? Like, couldn't they have used The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword's or The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess's or even the ultimate The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker as a base and build off of one of those (or even experiment with an unused style.... come on, it's Nintendo, they could've prioritized their schedule and make it in time for E3) to show off as an best-of Zelda style. Instead, they used an improved/evolved artstyle of a game that they themselves (and Mii ) view as the most supreme The Legend of Zelda title (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time™), which is why it's the title which they wish to surpass.

 

But I do feel as though graphics/visual styles plays and epic role in the quality of a game. I shan't repeat myself again but one thing I am excited to repeat is that brain-cell-killing visuals/graphical power would, I believe, be a sweet motivator for creativity. It definitely would!

Edited January 31, 2012 by Beverage

[Ronnie]

What I want to know, yeah, is why that specific art style was chosen to flaunt off at E3? Like, couldn't they have used The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword's or The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess's or even the ultimate The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker as a base and build off of one of those (or even experiment with an unused style.... come on, it's Nintendo, they could've prioritized their schedule and make it in time for E3) to show off as an best-of Zelda style. Instead, they used an improved/evolved artstyle of a game that they themselves (and Mii ) view as the most supreme The Legend of Zelda title (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Timeâ„¢), which is why it's the title which they wish to surpass.

 

It was a HD Twilight Princess art style on show at E3.

 

But I do feel as though graphics/visual styles plays and epic role in the quality of a game.

 

Sigh.

[Beverage]

Alright @Ronnie you got me in the first quote. I was winging it lol. And I'd appreciate it if you don't use a one-sentence finisher on me. : peace:

 

But you can sigh all you want on the second quote. *Tuts*

[Grazza]

I take your points about Majora's Mask, Ronnie, but a lot of that was allowed by the extra RAM (compared to OOT). Obviously the N64 was less powerful than the Wii, but the technical quality of the game seems to partly depend on what level you set the graphics at.

 

The irony is Skyward Sword did push the Wii to its limit, as evidenced by the way it could hardly manage the Timeshift Stone gameplay, plus slowdown at other times. It seems to me the processing power was used for the graphics more than the game world. I remember when Ghirahim was walking towards me; it's subtle, but I don't think you could have that level of animation on the GameCube.

 

And yet the general design of the game seemed less high-tech. For example, when approaching Skyloft, you could only see a "fake" version of it. You'd jump off your Loftwing, at which point the "real" version would load up - but you couldn't use this to arrive at a certain point with any accuracy. Compare this to Wind Waker's islands (particularly Windfall Island), which could be approached seemlessly and therefore felt more real.

[Ronnie]

So basically you've just disproved the notion that you need next gen hardware to make a gaming world feel more alive, when prior consoles handled things better than the current gen.

 

Next gen graphics should be the polish on top of what the series needs to focus on now: direction; in terms of core gameplay and returning the series to the triumphs of what it's known for, having a living and breathing world to explore, the highlights of which being Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. I just don't see what things like loading times and frame-rate slowdown have to do with crafting a better game. They should be in the triple digits in terms of a priority list for Zelda Wii U. The things you mentioned before like implementing a day/night cycle, that has nothing to do with hardware, but direction, something that hasn't been as strong in the last two console Zeldas.

[Grazza]

You need next-gen hardware if you want to keep improving the graphics and keep the technical prowess you've already built up.

 

By the way, my point about the slowdown was not that it ruined the game, just that it was proof there was no spare power to do the rest of the technical things I mentioned.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Grazza

[Ronnie]

You need next-gen hardware if you want to keep improving the graphics and keep the technical prowess you've already built up.

 

Well yes, but this all comes back to the original point that next gen hardware and HD graphics won't suddenly make a great Zelda game or fix the issues of Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess. Especially when previous gen consoles crafted games better. There are more important things to focus on than the next gen graphics.

[EEVILMURRAY]

But surely much more detailed facial expressions and a greater range of animation (in terms of characters and lansdape) helps bring everything to life - therefore making it more compelling and emotional?

Being able to see such hardcore graphics that I could count the hairs on a characters' beard isn't going to make a game more compelling or emotional for me at all.

[LostOverThere]

So uh, yeah.

 

[daftada]

If they can marry the epic scale of the worlds and bosses of God of War, with tight dungeon design (i thought SS's dungeons were one of its best features personally), an involving and fun central gameplay mechanic, MM-standard character development, and an engaging story then I'll be happy!

 

Whatever Nintendo come up with I'm sure an equal number of fans will love & hate it - the fan base is so diverse and passionate about what the series needs to keep/change that Nintendo will never, ever satisfy everyone.

[Eightbit]

Stop banging on about Majora's Mask being so damn good! Its making me want to buy it from the e-Shop and i'm determined to wait for Project Moonfall.

 

For the record, good graphics a great adventure do not make.

 

Raiders of the Lost Ark > Crystal Skull

[Captain Falcon]

Visuals, controls, gameplay, level design, story, tone, sidequests... perfect. No wonder EDGE and Famitsu gave perfect scores. Masterpiece.

 

Given some of the comments you've made since this post, do you still feel able to stand by this comment Ronnie?

 

I don't mean to look like a complete **** but as one of the few people to place unadulterated praise on the game, your more recent posts suggest even you acknowledge the game (series?) has some problems.

 

So what do you feel are the major issues plaguing the series right now?

[Ronnie]

Given some of the comments you've made since this post, do you still feel able to stand by this comment Ronnie?

 

I don't mean to look like a complete **** but as one of the few people to place unadulterated praise on the game, your more recent posts suggest even you acknowledge the game (series?) has some problems.

 

So what do you feel are the major issues plaguing the series right now?

 

In hindsight that post was a spur of the moment thing having just completed the game including the highs that come with finishing the main storyline and sitting through the ending. I still think it's a wonderful game, with a huge amount going for it, and definitely a step up from Twilight Princess, but opinions change over time and looking back with a more objective mind, the flaws become a lot clearer. Likewise I've come to appreciate the things Twilight Princess did well.

 

Honestly, I (and I'm sure many others) feel Nintendo are pandering to the fans too much and trying to be safe and appealing to everyone. Their obsession with accessibility to non-hardcore gamers is also worrying, even if it probably does sell more copies. I find Nintendo put too much emphasis on trivial parts of a game like bug collecting and motion controls, and not enough on others that are part of the foundation of a good Zelda game. Who cares if I can roll bombs on the ground, if you're just going to tack on a pointless harp into the storyline with no emotional attachment, just so you can tick the box marked 'include musical instrument'.

 

It's very difficult for me to put into words what makes titles like Wind Waker, Majora's Mask or Minish Cap wonderful Zelda games (IMO). They all had freshness and magic written all over them, and had Zelda's core values at the forefront, Wind Waker especially. Exploration was open-ended and massive in scope right from the off, as it should be; the mythology played a big part, the gameplay was varied, the art style was simply beautiful, the (spectacular) soundtrack had it's own flavour that's instantly recognisable, you felt like you were on an adventure and it was basically just filled with moments that just made you smile (fighting a boss by grappling hook-ing the dragon's tail on the ceiling so that it collapses on the boss, floating from island to island with your Deku Leaf raised at night, the wind whooshing by, your magic metre ominously pinging down, sneaking around the Forsaken Fortress with only a barrel as cover, to name just 3 examples in WW alone).

 

Yes I adored Skyward Sword, it was a blast to play through, a beautiful game and a nice celebration of 25 years of Zelda. But I do think that the enjoyment to be had whilst playing it through was quite deceptive and masked the issues that have clouded the Zelda series since Twilight Princess, but it gets away with it because it was such fun.

 

I don't pretend to know what would be the best course of action for Nintendo, but if I had to make some suggestions, I'd say the series needs to get back to what makes Zelda games special, the three intangibles: exploration, magic, and a sense of adventure. SS took a huge step backwards in that regard. Take a risk, ditch the hand-holding, bring back elements that make the game world feel alive (NPC routines, receiving mail in a bouncing post-box, reading books in the library after you've pushed them off the top shelf, changing the times of day, using music as a gameplay mechanic and not tacked on pointlessly like TP and SS), bring the MAGIC back into Zelda, both figuratively and literally, develop the mythology and give us something to wrap our head around storyline-wise. Mix up the gameplay and not have it so rigid. I still don't believe Skyward Sword altered the traditional Zelda flow in the slightest, in fact I think it was even more restricted and predictable than previous games, at least until the later bits near the end.

 

Why not take a risk like the moon crashing down, or being thrust straight into the action on a stormy night or in a high speed pursuit, or having a sleeping Wind Fish in a giant egg on a hilltop needing to be awoken, or Link being fired out of a cannon on a pirate ship, storming a fortress to rescue his sister. Skyward Sword and especially Twilight Princess felt lifeless in comparison, in a paint-by-numbers kind of way.

 

I'm a little useless at putting coherent impressions and opinions into words but hopefully the above makes a little sense. Just the ramblings of one Zelda fan, but having been playing for the last 25 years I do have a lot of emotional baggage I guess, as I'm sure most of us on here do as well :-)

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ronnie