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ok, just remebered the shawshank redemption. this will be a spoiler for any one who hasnt seen it so

remeber the ending? crawling through the sewers, the pipe full of shit? if that isnt an annology for hope i dont know what is. you may be forced to go through shit, but for whats on the outher side, its a small price to pay.

 

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yeah except

 

That was a movie and he was licky the pipe actually came out anywhere. Could've hit a filtration system. If we're to carry on that analogy then clearly some of us do get chopped up, or choke and drown down there, or vomit profusely and are unable to continue, or get eaten by rats, or get severe cramp in their thighs and end up smacking their head.

 

Never bring a Stephen King movie or book into serious matters. The guy's awesome, but completely fairy-tale orientated.

 

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yeah except

 

That was a movie and he was licky the pipe actually came out anywhere. Could've hit a filtration system. If we're to carry on that analogy then clearly some of us do get chopped up, or choke and drown down there, or vomit profusely and are unable to continue, or get eaten by rats, or get severe cramp in their thighs and end up smacking their head.

 

Never bring a Stephen King movie or book into serious matters. The guy's awesome, but completely fairy-tale orientated.

 

well shit, still, i can redeeme the argument by saying you dont get anything without taking that risk.

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But it's a risk, and if it's taking hazards and chances that got you to where you are then it's not so easy to say "well, I'll take another one!" especially when you don't even know what your choices are let alone which ones to make.

 

I'm not going to pretend that I understand what people think when they're contemplating suicide. I've been depressed but I would hardly like to think that I was anywhere near close enough to doing it, so I can't have a clue what the thought process would be like.

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But it's a risk, and if it's taking hazards and chances that got you to where you are then it's not so easy to say "well, I'll take another one!" especially when you don't even know what your choices are let alone which ones to make.

 

I'm not going to pretend that I understand what people think when they're contemplating suicide. I've been depressed but I would hardly like to think that I was anywhere near close enough to doing it, so I can't have a clue what the thought process would be like.

 

I'd say that's a very good point, actually. You end up in this shit place cos your actions, maybe taking a chance or a risk for the big payoff, but then you get there, and it's so bad you're too scared to even try and take another risk to get out of it, you'd rather put up with that bad forever than let it get even the tiniest bit worse. You're barely coping as it is, and you're scared shitless that you'll mess it up more and it'll just get worse, so you basically just get stuck there, doing nothing. I guess that might be how depression is, actually.

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My dad tried to commit suicide a few years back. Silly bastard couldn't even do that right.

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I'm not disagreeing, but what makes you say that, as opposed to all the other people who seem to think it is?

 

It takes a hell of a lot of guts to try and kill yourself, varying on the method chosen, no matter how depressed you are. It's not an easy thing to do and is in no way cowardly.

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It takes a hell of a lot of guts to try and kill yourself, varying on the method chosen, no matter how depressed you are. It's not an easy thing to do and is in no way cowardly.

 

That depends on how you view it. It takes a lot to kill yourself, but I'm not sure if I would call it courage or desperation. You could also say it is cowardly to take "the easy way" out of your problems, but on the other hand it's not necessarily because you're afraid of the future, but because you find it to be easier.

 

I don't think courage/cowardice are sufficient enough to describe/explain suicide.

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shit mate, sorry to hear that. It sounds like such a tragedy, sounds like he had plenty going for him and seemingly no reason to do it.

 

Suicide is often talked about as being the cowards way out but I don't think that is the case. There are obviously some form of psychological problems that cause someboy to reach this mind set that they are going to go as far to kill themselves. Unfortunately there is no real way to tell as I think even people who have such thoughts and seek help aren't quite at the point where they actually do it so even thoughts they are feeling can't be the same as at that point where someone is actually about to die. Even people who survive a suicide attempt I don't feel would have quite the same view on it. It's a wierd concept to understand I guess...

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I'd agree with Danny, I mean sure it takes alot of bottle to actually kill yourself(and I'm actually too much of a pussy to ever cut myself, I think) but then if you're commiting suicide it's usually because you can't deal with something else, so maybe that takes more courage? I dunno, it IS how you look at it, and I'd definitely say it takes some sort of(twisted) courage to actually kill yourself. I think it's definitely the case that you can't quite understand it until you're in it, and when you're not in it you forget again like?

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Most people posting are being amazingly un-sympathetical. Im very suprised.

 

It's still a bit of a taboo subject, our culture places alot of emphasis on the value of life more than other countries.

 

Anyway, I read this topic last week and had alot of things I wanted to say but was too busy to write at the time, so here goes.

 

So far from what I have seen in this thread I'll be the first to openly talk about personal experience and semi-professional viewpoint. There are many reasons causing suicide, besides the sacrificing element in other cultures where it is seen as honorable or expected, it usually boils down to a deep feeling of hopelessness. In a way it is a scary thing to do, not just about how much the method could hurt but the questions about what happens afterwards, but usually things build up so much that dying feels the best solution. Someone earlier said they could understand more for someone who is suffering from a physical illness like MS choosing to end it because of what they were facing in the future.

 

Think of it this way. Your day is shit, you're lucky if you can motivate yourself to get out of bed or out of the house, you cant find any pleasure in anything, the things you enjoyed before are just flat now. You spend most of the day thinking about how crap you are, you cant look in the mirror without being upset, you cant see any solution to your problems, you can only see them getting worse and worse, you cry frequently and you truly believe that people wouldnt care if you was gone and may think some people would be releaved. Now imagine that pain, mental anguish and you felt that was all your life was ever going to be, you saw no hope - you would begin to question whether you wanted to continue. Keep in mind that some people do suffer from unexplained depression linked to brain chemicals.

 

That was my life above, I went through serious depression for a long time and i struggled to function. I ended up trying to kill myself a number of times. Here's the thing and I believe this is the case for many people who get to that place and why there are many non-successful attempts - I didn't want to die, I wanted to live and be happy, but I was so miserable and depressed with my life that I couldn't cope and I just didn't want to live because I felt things would never get better. Imagine not wanting to live but not wanting to die? It's a right head fuck. Thankfully, things did improve for me, it took some time but i've come a long way since then.

 

One other thing I'd want to point out is about failed suicides or 'attention seeking'. Firstly, it may seem like the people who say nothing are the ones who end up dying - statistically the ones who have said it at some point or have had a failed attempt are the higher percentage to end up dying. Can you also say the guy who never expressed his feelings to you didn't express it to someone else? Also, why is there a bad reputation for those failed attempts / attention seeking? In most cases they are seeking help for a serious reason, shouldnt we stop and listen? I admit my first attempt was more of a desperate way of showing how badly I needed help rather than wanting to die. After the reaction I recieved at the time i then chose not to speak to anyone when i was on the edge and about to try kill myself.

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A rather loose looking statistic you pulled out at the end there. Other than that, your entire post was quite enlightening. From what I've said of Suicide, I spoke from myself and personal feelings recently(and oh how foolish they seem now that I'm out), I also speak from what I hear, from people I know personally who have felt it/tried it/have other problems and depression, and from a also semi-experienced point of view(I wondered what your semi-professional experience was LukeLee) of having spent the last two years working part time in an acute psychiatric ward as a HCA, which is a totally unqualified position, so I'm not claiming to be professional or an authority, merely speaking from personal experience.

 

I understand that sometimes suicide IS attention seeking in a way that it's a cry for help, a way to show the world because you're not quite sure how else to do so, but sometimes it's also used by repeat offenders, as it were, to get what they want. It's how they've learnt to be, they've gotten stuck into the bad cycle, and the only person who can help them is themselves after a while. It's a very complicated matter, and psychiatric 'illness' has a very wide and varied part to play, I often think unipolar depressives have a much different pattern of suicide compared to bipolar affective sufferers(indeed, I think Bipolar is much more widespread than it seems, and I think alot of these people who seem 'not like that' and suddenly appear to commit suicide may suffer from some element of it). It's a very complicated issue, I'm looking at it now from a much less personal point of view as my frame of mind is moving further and further away from it, and I have alot of thoughts but I haven't considered them quite enough to finish this post, so I'll leave it here til I think more.

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Attention seeking through suicide 'attempts' is ridiculous. If you didn't plan to kill yourself, why put your friends and familly through the horror of knowing you tried? If you can get the courage to put a blade to your wrist, and knowingly slice it the wrong way, then you should have the courage to talk to those who care about you instead.

 

A lot of people with mental health difficulties use that technique to get what they want all the time, so much so that its childish. I would think someone of sounder mind would know better.

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Attention seeking through suicide 'attempts' is ridiculous. If you didn't plan to kill yourself, why put your friends and familly through the horror of knowing you tried? If you can get the courage to put a blade to your wrist, and knowingly slice it the wrong way, then you should have the courage to talk to those who care about you instead.

 

A lot of people with mental health difficulties use that technique to get what they want all the time, so much so that its childish. I would think someone of sounder mind would know better.

 

there was a girl in school who attempted suicide as a means of getting attention. her method was to try and hang her self in the girls toilets, tie around her neck, tie tied to the door frame and to lie down.

 

we knew everything was ok when the paramedic turned up on a bicycle.

 

 

still, upset the little girl who found her, came into our class room to get scisors to cut her down. personaly i found the whole thing rather funny.

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Wait, how can you attempt suicide to get attention? You make it look like you're trying to kill yourself, but in reality you're not? What if things go wrong? :confused:

 

Other than that, I applaud LukeLee's post. He managed to say what I've been thinking.

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Wait, how can you attempt suicide to get attention? You make it look like you're trying to kill yourself, but in reality you're not? What if things go wrong? :confused:

 

Other than that, I applaud LukeLee's post. He managed to say what I've been thinking.

 

well, most of the time it isnt a serious attempt, as in you intend to get found, or stopped, or dont do things propperly. some people take pills, but not alot, outhers time it so outhers will disturb them.

 

there was a kid who did that in the paper a while ago, but they messed up and died. it really is a shame when that happens, seems like if some one is so desperate for attention there must be problems at home.

 

 

 

 

off on a tangeent here, but one of my friends a few years ago was always acting up for attention. he would copy outher peoples personality (heavil;y from mine) and do it louder so that he was the center of attention. he had a few marks on his arm, hed burnt himself with a electric fly killer thing, then was picking at the scabs. he wrote "poo" in his arm in blood, then chainged it to pain and started telling people it was self harm. i didnt give him any attention for it, i mean, i didnt want to re enforce that behaviour, plus, he was open about what hed done to his arm, and it was stupidity not self harm.

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To be honest, I quite often go through periods where I just... don't want to exist anymore. It's just that I often feel like this life is pretty pointless (at least mine is) and I really don't see the need to try and live it out until the end (whenever that is). So then I get thoughts about wanting to die, and I think stuff like "if only I would get hit by a car and die" or something... =/

 

Though I don't think I could actually kill myself, as I know I'd hurt my family immensely and don't want them to go through something like that. Which just means I keep living what I feel is an empty life most of the time.

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Ok, sorry to dissagree jim, but in some circumstances, sucide is very brave and very noble.

 

the second world war for example, a british soilder was captured by the germans, he was being "interigated" by the gestapo. he knew he couldnt hold out much longer, and rather then betray his country and hand over the details, he waitind for his interigator to leave the room for a smoke, and jumped out of the window to his death. he chose to kill himself for his country, this isnt cowardace, thats true bravery in my books.

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Well, that is far greater circumstances than anyone here has been faced with, I am quite sure. Also note how i said 99% of the time.

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Jim, don't insult people. Try to respect other people's opinions and to see the case from their point of view. You might get surprised.

 

Other than that, I very much agree with your view on life. Why not enjoy life? It's a decision we ultimately make ourselves, so why not choose to love life? I can see why things can be so dark that it can be hard to think that way, but I hope and wish for everyone to try to stay positive.

 

What I don't agree with is your attitude towards suicides. You seem to think everyone can just go through terrible things in life without feeling depressed or overwhelmed with hopelessness. I'm going to guess that you have never felt that way yourself, otherwise I don't believe that you would say the things you do. Yes, suicide is selfish, but don't try to tell me people who commit suicide are bad persons. They are people to whom life seems so hopeless and terrible that they would rather choose death. You shouldn't disrespect them, you should pity them. Like I have said before, people don't kill themselves over nothing.

 

NB: I know there are attention seekers, but that's another case.

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Jim, don't insult people. Try to respect other people's opinions and to see the case from their point of view. You might get surprised.

 

Other than that, I very much agree with your view on life. Why not enjoy life? It's a decision we ultimately make ourselves, so why not choose to love life? I can see why things can be so dark that it can be hard to think that way, but I hope and wish for everyone to try to stay positive.

 

What I don't agree with is your attitude towards suicides. You seem to think everyone can just go through terrible things in life without feeling depressed or overwhelmed with hopelessness. I'm going to guess that you have never felt that way yourself, otherwise I don't believe that you would say the things you do. Yes, suicide is selfish, but don't try to tell me people who commit suicide are bad persons. They are people to whom life seems so hopeless and terrible that they would rather choose death. You shouldn't disrespect them, you should pity them. Like I have said before, people don't kill themselves over nothing.

 

NB: I know there are attention seekers, but that's another case.

 

I agree entirely with this post. I think suicide can be very selfish when you have a lot of people that love you, friends and family, and whatnot.

 

I've had really dark times myself, and there have been occasions (very very rarely) where I considered if it was worth living or not.

 

But then I realised that there are thousands of people suffering like I am, and it would destroy my family if I went through with something like that.

 

Some people aren't as strong, maybe it is selfish, but we all have weaknesses.

 

I bolded the part that rings very true.

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Ok, things seem to be getting a bit heated, I know some people highly disagree with suicide etc and people who do it, but can we at least try and show some sensitivity towards the situation and people who are expressing their own thoughts on the matter? I should hope if there's one thing you will take from this thread, it's the fact that can be very very hard to understand or even begin to understand unless you have actually been there at any point. Very many kudos and congratulations to you if you haven't, you're a lucky and probably healthy individual who takes life the right way, but not everybody does everything like you do and so try not to hate them because you don't consider them as good as yourself. I'm directing this mainly at Jim, but also anyone else who shares the same opinion. I also highly disagree with the 99% figure, unless you can give me something to back that up, don't just pull numbers out of nowhere to try and emphasise your point.

 

To be honest, I quite often go through periods where I just... don't want to exist anymore. It's just that I often feel like this life is pretty pointless (at least mine is) and I really don't see the need to try and live it out until the end (whenever that is). So then I get thoughts about wanting to die, and I think stuff like "if only I would get hit by a car and die" or something... =/

 

Though I don't think I could actually kill myself, as I know I'd hurt my family immensely and don't want them to go through something like that. Which just means I keep living what I feel is an empty life most of the time.

 

I'm actually quite surprised and sad to hear that, as I guess I've never really noticed it or seen it come through here on the forums(but it's also hardly a medium for knowing someone in great depth). Then again, I guess you might fall into the category of people who you never really expect it from. I think I might understand the feeling there, it isn't a case of wanting to die or wanting to live, it's just a case of not wanting to exist anymore, and indifference to life as it is. You could die there and then, and it wouldn't matter, you wouldn't care too much like. What I would like to know though, is how often do you feel like it? More importantly, how or when do you get out of feeling like it? What keeps you going, what brings you back up?

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