Posted July 30, 2008 anyone know if there is any t-shirt merchendise of the film with Joker and the "Why So Serious" on it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 My ex said she tried getting the Why So Serious poster but because of something about Ledger dying they couldn't sell it anymore or something, maybe the same fate will bestall the clothing range? Just curious, did anyone else expect the film to end shortly after Harvey got his face burnt? I did a bit, I certainly didn't expect Two-Face to die at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 There's t-shirts on Play.com of Joker/Heath but none have the Why So Serious slogan, which i think would be wicked on a shirt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 But i understood with the speech that the movie will end, wich is a shame, i would like Joker to get killed. But that would destroy his whole bag. As is said in the film (and is a staple of the comics), he and Batman are two sides of the same coin (See Two-Faces metaphorical prescence in the film having a point? ). Batman will never kill Joker (in both comics and as evidenced in the film), and as Joker stated, he doesn't want Batman to die, either. --- Read the IGN article, and I don't agree with Talia's prescence. She's never been mentioned (unless you count Ghul's brief mention of "having" a family in the past, which in any case sounded like they'd died), and rehashing the originals story is a bit rubbish. Riddler I like, and he;s the one everyone thinks will be there, but if not, I want the other idea, of the gang wars, featuring Black Mask and maybe other "named' villains, like Penguin and Ventriloquist. I think having Black Mask would allow for a decent, Nolan-esque origin for Catwoman too, going by the relationship they have in the comics. Though his torture of Selina's sister could be off-screen/in the past, in provides a realistic origin. Like in Returns (and Catwoman ), instead of being a plain old thief, she could be out for revenge, using espionage and thievery to do it, until she teams up with Batman to try and bring Maskie down for good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 some empire feature on next batman villan had a guy called deadshot (or somthing) in. hes bassicly a man with guys. ok, so hes not exactly out their but the idea behind him is bassicly this: hes between good and bad. he wants to die but wont kill himself so he tries to go down in a blaze of glory. imagine, if you will, that he, like batman, has a family killed by crime, and he, like batman, wants revenge, only he, unlike batman, decides killing is justified. bassicly, he takes down the gangs as a vigilante, but is endangering lives and killing leads. batman recognises this is who he could have been, and that good and evil arnt black and white. i put him forward as the riddler is good, but a little too similar to the joker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 some empire feature on next batman villan had a guy called deadshot (or somthing) in. hes bassicly a man with guys. ok, so hes not exactly out their but the idea behind him is bassicly this: hes between good and bad. he wants to die but wont kill himself so he tries to go down in a blaze of glory. imagine, if you will, that he, like batman, has a family killed by crime, and he, like batman, wants revenge, only he, unlike batman, decides killing is justified. bassicly, he takes down the gangs as a vigilante, but is endangering lives and killing leads. batman recognises this is who he could have been, and that good and evil arnt black and white. i put him forward as the riddler is good, but a little too similar to the joker. Deadshot was in the Gotham Knight DVD release, which is based in the Nolan-verse, probably indicating that Nolan had no intention to use him. Also, Prometheus would be a more interesting character to take down that parallel route, although, I think that's already happened with the Joker. Chaos vs. Order and all that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 But that would destroy his whole bag. As is said in the film (and is a staple of the comics), he and Batman are two sides of the same coin (See Two-Faces metaphorical prescence in the film having a point? ). Batman will never kill Joker (in both comics and as evidenced in the film), and as Joker stated, he doesn't want Batman to die, either. --- Read the IGN article, and I don't agree with Talia's prescence. She's never been mentioned (unless you count Ghul's brief mention of "having" a family in the past, which in any case sounded like they'd died), and rehashing the originals story is a bit rubbish. Riddler I like, and he;s the one everyone thinks will be there, but if not, I want the other idea, of the gang wars, featuring Black Mask and maybe other "named' villains, like Penguin and Ventriloquist. I think having Black Mask would allow for a decent, Nolan-esque origin for Catwoman too, going by the relationship they have in the comics. Though his torture of Selina's sister could be off-screen/in the past, in provides a realistic origin. Like in Returns (and Catwoman ), instead of being a plain old thief, she could be out for revenge, using espionage and thievery to do it, until she teams up with Batman to try and bring Maskie down for good. Yeah, but now that Heath is dead, who's gonna replace Joker? No one will perform as him, we are doomed to see him not mentioned or replaced with a bad imitation :'( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 There's t-shirts on Play.com of Joker/Heath but none have the Why So Serious slogan, which i think would be wicked on a shirt I got one from the US that does: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 Deadshot was in the Gotham Knight DVD release, which is based in the Nolan-verse, probably indicating that Nolan had no intention to use him. Also, Prometheus would be a more interesting character to take down that parallel route, although, I think that's already happened with the Joker. Chaos vs. Order and all that. Prometheus would certainly be a formidable enough enemy (since he defeated like the whole JLA). It would be cool if Catwoman were the one to defeat him in the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 I'm going to be seing this for the second time this Monday. See whether it holds up upon a second viewing. Usually movies I really like the first time improve the secnd time as I notice more things that I hadn't before. Like I didn't even realise Batman had been told the wrong address >___< And got so confused at that part. :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 SPOILERS!!!! The film is good, nothing more. And maybe its because I make films for a living, but I'm surprised at how surprised everyone is by really obvious moments. The only surprise for me was WHEN rachel died, that was good. But people actually thought Gordon was dead? Huh? And they couldn't have made it more obvious is was the joker at the beginning....this wasn't even a surprise. The film was much better than Batman Begins - the ideas in that were great, the stye was great, but the Batman character setup was WAY too longwinded, for me it didn't work. It took THAT long to set up, purely because under the surface they were setting up Liam Neeson too. But it just slowed it down with NO drammatic action whatsoever. The 2nd half of the film was better but still not much drama, Scraecrow - great character, way underused, and Al Ghul (sp?) was a bit damp, again, no drammatic action at the end.....also, I love Christian Bale, but His Batman 'voice' doesn't work for me. Now Dark Knight doesnt need an hour to set up Batman, brilliant. Heath Ledger is a very good joker, though over used his tongue tick, begin to grate me a little and breakdown the character to reveal the actor. But he was good, should have killed him though, no reason whatsoever to keep him alive and was unfulfilling. On the same note, Two face dying again was unfullfilling, there was some good tension there but for me they blew it with the surprise out the blue Batman knocks him off thebuilding.....also, Harvey Dent was a fantastic characterm but I truly, truly didn't believe AT ALL in his sudden change to killing innocent people, the journey didn't work and Two Face was disappointing, and although I got used to it by the end (the ending two face shot was fantastic) his 'face' was a bit comedy. Overall though I liked it, Bales voice was at times even worse but most of the time better, there were some dodgy moments (ALL the sonar stuff) and I felt they held back on the darkness of the film too much, cut away too early when they could have played out the moments for a much darker film - would have been better. Gary Oldman is amazing and the hanging joker shot was incredible!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 Should have killed him though, no reason whatsoever to keep him alive and was unfulfilling. The whole point in the comics is that Batman will never kill the Joker. It seems stupid, but it's all part of Batman's character as a vigilante obsessed with keeping the law in a just way. They should have had a final scene with the Joker in it (possibly after the credits?), because by the time Dent had died, I had kinda forgotten that the Joker was just left hanging there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 The whole point in the comics is that Batman will never kill the Joker. It seems stupid, but it's all part of Batman's character as a vigilante obsessed with keeping the law in a just way. They should have had a final scene with the Joker in it (possibly after the credits?), because by the time Dent had died, I had kinda forgotten that the Joker was just left hanging there. Yeah I get that, but the comics run through MANY stories, thats it, Joker finished, bye bye. For me there needed to be a conclusion to the story, and there wasn't. I love faithfulness to the comics, but you have to adapt to make a film, and for me, it was an unfullfilling ending for what was a really interesting character Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2008 Just back from it now, and I loved it! 2 things though: 1: Why was it so long??! It was like 2 1/2 hours! Wow!! 2: Why did they kill off Two-Face? I figured he was being set up for the next film's villain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 2: Why did they kill off Two-Face? I figured he was being set up for the next film's villain. What would the point of him being a villain in the future be? In the comics, he's kinda crap...most of the time, he just commits dull crimes, and just ignores whatever result he gets on his coin, and kills innocents. Never liked him. They did him perfectly here, and Two-Face had to die along with Harvey. Therefore neither good nor evil wins. (Although, good won over Joker, as had Two-Face lived, Joker would have had a small victory) ----- And Joker dying would, to me, be unfulfilling. Batman is a rookie, he's learning to keep his rage in check (the Batpod scene demostrates him losing his cool for example). He doesn't want another Ra's Al Ghul, just letting him die. Joker laughs as he falls, indicating that he has no qualms about his impending death, but Batman can't let him have his way. Think about how ecstatic Joker was when he was falling to his death compared to how silent and perturbed he was in jail. Joker lives = Batman wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 the ending two face shot was fantastic) his 'face' was a bit comedy. How do you figure that? It practically follows the comic almost exactly, lovely eyeball, lips missing for a lovely rage shot. Was it the bone that didn't to it for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 Comedy? Geez, that face received a lot of "EUGH"'s from my theater, i tought it was cool. And to me, Two-Face didn't die, the next movie will be based on him, with him in a secret prison, running away, and Batman trying to bust him, before someone notices who the Two-Faces is. Of course, he would be only a Secondary Villain, The Riddler would fulfill the role of "Freelance Detective" and try to discover everything, only to become pshyco for some reason. And yes, Dazzybee, to me, Joker should've died, not for the same reasons, tough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 Yeah I get that, but the comics run through MANY stories, thats it, Joker finished, bye bye. For me there needed to be a conclusion to the story, and there wasn't. I love faithfulness to the comics, but you have to adapt to make a film, and for me, it was an unfullfilling ending for what was a really interesting character Originally Joker does die at the end of the film, but they were asked to remove that scene due to him actually dieing in real-life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 Originally Joker does die at the end of the film, but they were asked to remove that scene due to him actually dieing in real-life. Wasn't it that a scene with Joker in a body bag was going to be removed (but in the end, it stayed)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 Originally Joker does die at the end of the film, but they were asked to remove that scene due to him actually dieing in real-life. Im certain thats not true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 He shouldn't have died- he's too much part of The Batman to croak it they shouldn't do him again though. Even if Heath hadn't died, why bother? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 How do you figure that? It practically follows the comic almost exactly, lovely eyeball, lips missing for a lovely rage shot. Was it the bone that didn't to it for you. This is a ridiulcous point, it doesn't matter what it's like in the comics, they have to be ADAPTED so they work in film - XMen for example didnt use the comics costues because they looked stupid when the designed them for real life. The eye and the mouth looked pure comedy for me (except the end), just didn't work and made him to be too comic book rather than the 'real' style to the film as a whole - it jars! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 This is a ridiulcous point, it doesn't matter what it's like in the comics, they have to be ADAPTED so they work in film - XMen for example didnt use the comics costues because they looked stupid when the designed them for real life. The eye and the mouth looked pure comedy for me (except the end), just didn't work and made him to be too comic book rather than the 'real' style to the film as a whole - it jars! I dont think it looked comedy at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 when i saw stills, i didnt like two face, but in action, it worked really well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2008 We talked about this film for about 10 minutes in my job interview today, and I ended up getting the job! I'll probably see the first 5 minutes again and again, now when I'm showing people to their seats :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
