The Dark Knight Discussion (Spoilers)

[chairdriver]

More like putting Batman so low down! Why's that..? It's really good! And I watched it a few months ago, and it changed my view of Nicholson's Joker, who I never really liked. Plus I like the two reporters POV angle, which in a way I missed in Returns.

 

Two reasons:

 

Nicole Kidman and Uma Thurman.

[Solo]

Are the names of two actresses that added nothing to the franchise.

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

Michelle Pfeiffer's portrayal of Catwoman in Returns is my favourite movie characterisation of all time.

 

I just love how it's so different to the comics, and how everything she says is a pun.

 

I think everything in that film was perfect. The actual style and visuals within the film were done so, so well. It's got such a Christmassy feel to it, which is common through a lot of Tim Burton's films, and it also remains Gothic at the same time.

 

Also, looking at that lineup, you've got Keaton as Batman, DeVito as the Penguin, Pfeiffer as Catwoman, and ever Christopher Walken to boot!

 

The script itself was great. If there was nothing important to say, then nothing was said. The director let the characters just stand there, and you have lots of moments where there's silence, or just music in the background. Something which is very, very different in The Dark Knight, which is much more busier, faster, with camera angles that are constantly changing. Difference in pace.

 

Returns WAS my favourite before this, simply because they made Catwoman and Penguin work in films, and I love Burton's interpretation of them.

 

However, The Dark Knight is not only a far superior film in most ways, It also captures the true darkness of Batman. Burton is dark in a light-hearted way, an aesthetic way, I think, which I do love, but the Joker (this version) > Catty and Pengy, for me.

 

Opinion though, and all that.

 

It depends which way you think The Dark Knight is superior. I think as far as Batman goes, Keaton wins hands down, for me. Keaton's Bruce Wayne also sits far more nicely with me, but then Bale's Wayne is very different. A lot more arrogant, more difficult to like. Two very different characters, for two different films.

 

The Joker did kick some serious arse, so I think I agree about 60 percent that he was better than Catwoman and the Penguin. The reason that I'm not so sure is because I love all of these characters so much, in different ways. Catwoman is a very sexual character, whilst the Penguin is more comical, in need of a huge hug, haha. I think all the characters benefit from the script-writers, as they did a superb job of giving dialogue to each of these characters. Catwoman without her puns or sexuality would not be the same character she was in Returns.

 

EDIT:

 

Why don't we rank the Batman films? I'd be interested to see everyone elses lists.

 

1. The Dark Knight

2. Batman Returns

3. Batman Begins

4. Batman

5. Batman And Robin

6. Batman Forever

 

Batman and Robin is only higher than Forever, becuase I haven't seen Forever in ages so can't rate it properly, and I find B+R just hilarious to laugh at.

 

This is going to be quite hard to rank...but for me, its:

 

1. Batman Returns

2. The Dark Knight

3. Batman

4. Batman Begins

5. Batman Forever

6. Batman and Robin

[Shorty]

I can't believe anyone could put Batman and Robin anywhere but bottom place. Not even BF should be below it. In fact, Batman Forever was immensely superior to it, even if it was not a scratch on Burton's first two movies. Jim Carrey acted the Riddler brilliantly, even if the character itself quickly became ridiculous. And Robin was pulled off about as well as a 90s blockbuster could manage without being utterly cheesy. I like Tommy Lee Jones so for a long time I thought he played a good Harvey Two-Face, but after TDK, I can no longer kid myself. Plus... yknow... B&R = nipple suits.

[Girly hiyaz!~ Gamer]

Batman

Batman Returns

The Dark Knight

Batman Forever

Batman Begins

Batman And Robin

 

Choosing between Batman Returns and TDK was pretty hard, but BR had the most amazing soundtrack ever, so I had to go with it.

[Slaggis]

I thought it was fucking fantastic. Heath was the best thing about the movie, and I'm just so goddamn annoyed he won't be in another one. If he doesn't get a best actor nomination next year, then something is wrong somewhere. He was truly scary, I mean I had my hands over my mouth in shock at numerous times during the film.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I thought it was fucking fantastic. Heath was the best thing about the movie, and I'm just so goddamn annoyed he won't be in another one. If he doesn't get a best actor nomination next year, then something is wrong somewhere. He was truly scary, I mean I had my hands over my mouth in shock at numerous times during the film.

 

The magic trick with the pencil had me and my brother gasping, and then laughing afterwards. And his voice...it was just perfect. There's very little he did wrong, to be honest.

 

Also, LOL at Prison Break's Agent Mahone appearing in the first scene. What a total badass.

[Paj!]

The script itself was great. If there was nothing important to say, then nothing was said. The director let the characters just stand there, and you have lots of moments where there's silence, or just music in the background. Something which is very, very different in The Dark Knight, which is much more busier, faster, with camera angles that are constantly changing. Difference in pace.

 

I have to agree with you that the pace is much, much different, and it's a less intense ride. I just love the realism of Nolan's movies, though the aesthetic of Burtons, as in the style overall is more attractive and fun.

 

I think that it works, as Batman would slow down as he got more experienced. Allthough, to be honest, we all know it was partly slow-paced due to the fact that the Batsuit was notoriously hard to move around in!

 

Although, Returns is as much a good adaptation Batman as TDK is; Returns being a fairly normal, long-panning, slow-paced story typical of the comics normally, while TDK is more like the huge comic arcs that crop up from time to time, where the pace is relentless, and Batman is pushed to his limits, reminding us that he is human, like us.

 

Keaton wins hands down, for me. Keaton's Bruce Wayne also sits far more nicely with me, but then Bale's Wayne is very different. A lot more arrogant, more difficult to like. Two very different characters, for two different films.

 

I have to say, I think if Keaton were the age he was back then (or even younger) I'd want him instead of Bale. With the flexibility of the current Batsuit, we could actually see him in action for real. I think he looked better in the Batsuit, and I liked the aloofness of his Wayne more than Bale's more typical Playboy version. Only problem was Keaton's curly hair, always threw me...Batman shouldn't have curly hair! Random reason for not loving him as Bruce, I know, but it just causes him to not be the Bruce Wayne I know and love.

 

So yeah, I prefer Keaton as Batman, but I prefer Batman himself and how he performs in the modern films (obviously more accurate to the comics).

 

I remember liking Kilmer too, but I can't remember fully why.

 

----

 

And the Forever vs. B+R thing, I have yet to buy Forever on DVD, so had to base my rank on my last viewing about 6 years ago, which I can't remember fully. Whereas I watched B+R recently, and was entertained thouroughly by it's campiness. I mean, it doesn't take itself seriously, why should we? We have the grittier, more definitive series of Batman films now, I can laugh heartily at previous efforts without feeling robbed of a potentially good film, like many felt when B+R came out, I expect.

 

I actually like all the films, in their own way.

[ReZourceman]

Batman

Batman Returns

The Dark Knight

Batman Forever

Batman Begins

Batman And Robin

 

Rofflez...

[Noodleman]

The Dark Knight

Batman

Batman Begins

Batman Returns

Batman Forever

Turd on a stick

Batman and Robin

[ReZourceman]

Batman Begins

The Dark Knight

Batman Returns

Batman

Batman Forever

Film I erased from my memory.

 

In truth I dont really like any of the old Batman films at all though.

[Cube]

From what I've seen

 

1. The Dark Knight

2. Batman Begins

- Insanely Big Gap in Quality -

3. Batman Forever

- An Even More Insanely Big Gap in Quality -

4. Batman & Robin

[Coolness Bears]

My order:

 

The Dark Knight (fantastic film with an incredible performance from Heath Ledger )

Batman Begins (I thought this film was excellent! then the Dark Knight came out)

Batman Returns (The Penguin was hilarious)

Batman (I thought Jack Nicholsons Joker was great! )

Batman forever (I have a poster... somewhere...)

Batman and Robin (why have I watched the whole movie in German?)

[Guest Maase]

Well, Paj, i saw the reviews of Cinemassacre on every Batman movie :P

 

Also, to understand the story in The Dark Knight, i saw the complete Movie Spoiler of Batman Begins ^^

[Paj!]

I need to go and buy the DVD of Batman Forever. Considering I watched like every Batman thing I had before seeing Dark Knight, and still am (Moved onto the 90's TV series videos I have), It's a glaring gap that needs to be filled in my collection.

 

Plus I'm in a Riddler mood now.

[KKOB]

After watching the film last thursday morning, i'm going to see it tomorrow in imax, hope it'll be worth it!

[McPhee]

Who do people think should be the next villain?

 

I'm thinking Black Mask would be a great entry for the next film. The criminal underworld in Gotham is in chaos at the moment, and he's the right character to re-organise it and give Batman a real fight. Introducing Dr. Harlen Quinzel is a must too, with her slowly falling in love with The Joker throughout the film. That would then set up The Joker for a break-out in film #4!

 

Bane is another character i'd like to see, but done properly this time. Bring Knightfall to the big screen! Hopefully it's not the next film though, too similar to TDK in terms of it's effect on Batman. Oh and on a final note, i'd like to see Scarecrow step up to the plate a bit. I don't want to see him as the main villain in a film, but maybe a force of chaos in his own right. I want him as a stronger character that's perfectly capable of standing on his own, has his own agenda and occasionally causes trouble for both sides in a Batman vs Villain fight.

[Shorty]

Who do people think should be the next villain?

 

I'm thinking Black Mask would be a great entry for the next film. The criminal underworld in Gotham is in chaos at the moment, and he's the right character to re-organise it and give Batman a real fight. Introducing Dr. Harlen Quinzel is a must too, with her slowly falling in love with The Joker throughout the film. That would then set up The Joker for a break-out in film #4!

 

Bane is another character i'd like to see, but done properly this time. Bring Knightfall to the big screen! Hopefully it's not the next film though, too similar to TDK in terms of it's effect on Batman.

*points to earlier in the thread for more answers to your question*

 

Harley Quinn would be pretty cool, my g/f loves that character so she'd be happy. I wouldn't mind seeing Bane. They screwed him up in B&R (along with a lot of things) as he is supposed to be a very intelligent villain, would be nice to see him done properly.

[ReZourceman]

Check out this IGN article on specukation for the next villains

 

We pretty much all agreed earlier that Riddler would be great, this article also mentions Talia. I absolutely adore the idea they've got in this article, sounds quality.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Well. I'm off to go see it now. I bet that because everyone's MSN name and Facebook status has involved some form of ejaculation over The Dark Knight, I'm now going to find it slightly mediocre.

[Guest Maase]

Well. I'm off to go see it now. I bet that because everyone's MSN name and Facebook status has involved some form of ejaculation over The Dark Knight, I'm now going to find it slightly mediocre.

 

Yeah, problably..

 

That's why i never see trailers, teasers, or anything at all, i never read comments, etc, until i see the movie, it gets much better.

 

Actually tough, i got spoiled this time about Harvey Dent turning Two-Faces, but i just remembered it after the explosion (insert face palm)

[McPhee]

*points to earlier in the thread for more answers to your question*

 

Harley Quinn would be pretty cool, my g/f loves that character so she'd be happy. I wouldn't mind seeing Bane. They screwed him up in B&R (along with a lot of things) as he is supposed to be a very intelligent villain, would be nice to see him done properly.

 

Ah, well on that note then this is how i'd like to see the next instalment play out:

 

Batman is on the run from the GCPD. Bruce has to become more carefull about how and when he uses his alterego for fear of being caught.

 

The criminal underworld is in chaos, with leadership struggles among the big crime families and increasing pressure from the GCPD, along with the usual Bat problems. During the course of the film we see Oswald Cobblepot (AKA The Penguin, but not refered to as that at this stage) and a man calling himself 'The Black Mask' make use of this power vaccum, splitting the criminal underworld in to warring factions (the ones who follow corrupt businessman Copplepot, those who turn to 'The Black Mask' for help and inspiration, and those who attempt to stay independant).

 

Super-sleuth Edward Nigma is brought in by the GCPD to aid them in discovering catching The Batman and discovering his true identity. He's a free-agent, a PI with a very, very good reputation and the best in the business. The problem is the police know nothing of his methods and with Batman proving to be his biggest challenge yet he forges a plan that stakes Gotham City's very existance against unimaginable wealth and glory. Rumour has it that a man called The Riddler is selling a new super-steroid nick-named "Venom" to the highest bidder. It is from this rumour that The Riddler (or Edward Nigma as he is more commonly known) unleashes his deadly plan to trap Batman between the GCPD and the criminal underworld. If Edward's plan goes well then The Batman will be unmasked and in custody, along with Oswald Cobblepot and The Black Mask. Edward Nigma will be hailed as the saviour of Gotham City and it's new 'White Knight'. If it all goes wrong then Venom will find it's way in to the hands of the criminal underworld and Gotham will be facing it's darkest days ever.

 

The next film is then obviously ready for Bane to make an appearance. Rather than have him bulging on Venom from the off i'd rather see him aquire it during the course of the film, a necessary tool for his plan.

Scarecrow takes a more prominent role (after being feed from Arkham), becoming a true villain and actually capable of occupying Batman's attention alone. The Joker is introduced to Dr. Harleen Quinze, and we see her fall for him during the course of the film, before Bane ultimately breaks The Joker free. The fifth installment focuses on Harley and The Joker.

[Mike]

Aren't you guys missing something from your top Batman films list?

"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!"

[Cube]

Just curious, did anyone else expect the film to end shortly after Harvey got his face burnt?

 

I was just sat there thinking "Well...Joker is in jail and Harvey has had half his face burnt....that film was awes....OMG! IT'S NOT OVER!"

[Guest Maase]

I never expect nothing to end, i was just delighted with the movie, enjoying every moment.

 

But i understood with the speech that the movie will end, wich is a shame, i would like Joker to get killed.