The Dark Knight Discussion (Spoilers)

[Kirkatronics]

I think the Idea is that Joker tells these different stories because he himself doesn't really know or does know but has lost which ones is the real truth and over the years created several different stories.

Nice theory, like hes lied so much its became what he belives.

 

No his hand isnt burned

[EEVILMURRAY]

I mentioned that earlier War.

I think the Idea is that Joker tells these different stories because he himself doesn't really know or does know but has lost which ones is the real truth and over the years created several different stories.

Or just a piss poor excuse to not say it.

[Kirkatronics]

I mentioned that earlier War.

 

Or just a piss poor excuse to not say it.

Which bit? Joker, or Twoface?

[chairdriver]

Or just a piss poor excuse to not say it.

 

But Joker has never had an origin story in the comics (apart from a few panels, where he's referred to as Jack).

[Paj!]

But Joker has never had an origin story in the comics (apart from a few panels, where he's referred to as Jack).

 

Do you mind reading The Killing Joke? It's more than a few panels.

 

Though it's never been confirmed as the truth, it's effectively his origin, as it was a look directly inside his head, and he was saddened by the memories.

 

Also, Grant Morisson's Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth has an interesting view on the Joker. I don't have it here with me, but the psychologist woman informs Batman that her professional diagnosis is that Joker is the first case of what she dubs "Super-Sanity, a mind-set more adapted for life in the upcoming 21st century" (this was published in 1989), and that "Joker reinvents himself everyday, explaining why he's a playful clown somedays, and a cold, murderous sociopath the next".

[EEVILMURRAY]

Though it's never been confirmed as the truth, it's effectively his origin, as it was a look directly inside his head, and he was saddened by the memories.

How did it go?

[Paj!]

From Wiki;

Though many have been related, a definitive back-story has never been established for the Joker in the comics, and his real name has never been confirmed. He has been portrayed as lying so often about his former life that he himself is confused as to what actually happened. As he says in The Killing Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"[12] In Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth written by Grant Morrison, it is said that the Joker may not be insane, but has some sort of "super-sanity" in which he re-creates himself each day to cope with the chaotic flow of modern urban life.

 

Basically what I said.

 

The most widely cited backstory, which the official DC Comics publication, Who's Who in the DC Universe, credits as the most widely believed account, can be seen in The Killing Joke. It depicts him as originally being an engineer at a chemical plant who quits his job to become a stand-up comedian, only to fail miserably. Desperate to support his pregnant wife, Jeannie, the man agrees to help two criminals break into the plant where he was formerly employed. In this version of the story, the Red Hood persona is given to the inside man of every job (thus it is never the same man twice); this makes the man appear to be the ringleader, allowing the two criminals to escape. During the planning, police contact him and inform him that his wife and unborn child have died in a household accident.

 

Stricken with grief, he attempts to back out of the plan, but the criminals strong-arm him into keeping his promise. As soon as they enter the plant, however, they are immediately caught by security and a shoot-out ensues, in which the two criminals are killed. As the engineer tries to escape, he is confronted by Batman, who is investigating the disturbance. Terrified, the engineer leaps over a rail and plummets into a vat of chemicals. When he surfaces in the nearby reservoir, he removes the hood and sees his reflection: bleached chalk-white skin, ruby-red lips, and bright green hair. These events, coupled with his other misfortunes that day, drive the engineer completely insane, resulting in the birth of the Joker.

 

 

Though the most recent depiction of his origin is a bit different, and more related to vengeance on Batman. (Look up on Wiki for more info)

[Dan_Dare]

I really dislike ret-conned origin stories like that. Bob Kane never gave him one, why should anyone?

 

the worst, worst offender EVER in this practice is the complete sacrilege commited by whichever hack decided that Magneto's genesis in the nazi concentration camps was actually an assumed identity.

 

utter shit. What the fuck were they thinking?

[chairdriver]

Yeah, but Bob Kane was writing in the Golden Age, where comic continuity was virtually non-existant. Most issues had no consequence on anything. Joker didn't need to have a story, he was just a villain that appeared every couple of issues to give Batman someone to fight.

 

I'm not too fussed when they go back and fill in the origins, if they make sense, and fit in with the "mood" of the character.

 

I love when they make relatively minor characters into main characters, like Renee Montoya in 52.

[Dan_Dare]

but it works with The Joker much better.

[Jonnas]

Well, finally saw it. Fantastic movie, really.

 

And echoing Eenuh's words, subtitles FTW. I perfectly understood Batman was going for Rachel and Gordon for Harvey.

 

About Joker, he's one of those villains whose origin I never questioned. He just exists, period. He's like Batman's evil side. It's one of the reasons he's so awesome.

 

As for Batman 3, I'm liking Bane and Riddler. And that Black Mask fellow sounds great, too.

[Paj!]

but it works with The Joker much better.

 

It's not like it's even confirmed, and it doesn't really matter, it doesn't affect that character.

 

I dislike pointless retcons, which DC are somewhat guilty of doin, like when they made Black Canary a founder of the JLA (good) in their big retcon-athon of 1985, but then retcon'd her out, in favour of Wonder Woman, who was technically their in the first place, in the most recent Infinite Crisis.

[Nintendinosaur]

Depp for Riddler and Cher for Catwoman according to latest reports.

[Paj!]

CHER?!

 

*dies*

[Dan_Dare]

um, what?

 

are you seriously suggesting that Christopher Nolan, one of the best writers and directors in Hollywood, working with Christian Bale, Morgan Freeman and the rest of what's arguably the best ensemble cast in years, would cast Cher?

[ReZourceman]

Depp for Riddler and Cher for Catwoman according to latest reports.

 

Which we won't hear for months....a sequels not even confirmed.

[Retro_Link]

No he's right!

 

Madonna's also playing Harley Quinn, but Nolan's not sure who to cast for Clayface yet,

Morph or Chaz?!

 

[Girly hiyaz!~ Gamer]

lol over here

[Paj!]

No he's right!

 

Morph or Chaz?!

 

 

Cast both, there's loads of Clayfaces (Clayfeaces? Clayfeces!), and those two would be perfect for both Clayfaces in The Batman;

 

 

Of course, the BTAS Clayface wins.

[ReZourceman]

No he's right!

 

Madonna's also playing Harley Quinn, but Nolan's not sure who to cast for Clayface yet,

Morph or Chaz?!

 

 

Hahahah! Amazing.

 

Obviously Morph. Much more thematic colour.

[Retro_Link]

Hahahah! Amazing.

 

Obviously Morph. Much more thematic colour.

Yeah but lets not forget Chaz was an evil bastard!

[Nintendinosaur]

It is pretty crazy.

 

http://io9.com/5041165/craziest-bat+rumor-ever

 

 

It could work if she plays it as a sort of Cruella DeVille thing, she would fit in Nolan's world as some kind of old lady mafia boss thing.

 

Like Mom in futurama maybe.

[ReZourceman]

PS The rumour started in the Telegraph.

[Paj!]

I can see Cher as a "slightly" older, more "Memory" from Cats-ish version of Catwoman

 

I lol'd.

 

Liza Minelli for the Penguin

 

*dies, again*

 

----

 

Cher is probably the least likely person to ever be cast as Catwoman.

[EEVILMURRAY]

We need Tom Selleck and Ted Danson as someone.