Government to log every phone call, email and text

[Brian Mcoy]

Mcoy dosen't know weather to trust the government with logs of EVERYTHING it's one thing for them to have all our logs but Mocy dosen't trust them to actually keep that data secure, Mcoy remember alot of peoples personal information being stolen before, Mcoy could only imagine what people would do if they stole data like this as well.

[MoogleViper]

Why is everybody so bothered about this? If you aren't a criminal then you've got nothing to hide. And they most certainly aren't going to read your texts. Billions of phone calls, texts and e-mails get sent in the uk everyday. How the hell do you think they are going to listen to/read all of that? They would only use it in the event of a murder or if they got a tip off or something. To be honest I think we should all have tracking devices planted in us. It would solve 99.9% of crimes and deter most criminals.

[Kirkatronics]

Data protection act?

Human rights?

This won't be fair...

Everything has a contradiction to help the government get its own way, think about the freedom of data act (may have the wrong name)...

[Charlie]

You keep hearing on the news about Terrorists. There are no such things as Terrorists, only freedom fighters. You keep hearing on the news about how the 9/11 attacks took over 3000 lives, but since the invasion of Afghanistan over 100,000 people have been killed, due to looking for one man!

 

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Do you think every South African thought of Nelson Mandela as a freedom fighter?

 

 

Beleive what you want, but don't tell me what is true and what isn't true.

 

So why are you trying to tell us what is true and what isn't?.... Hypocrit alert!

[Indigo]

Why is everybody so bothered about this? If you aren't a criminal then you've got nothing to hide. And they most certainly aren't going to read your texts. Billions of phone calls, texts and e-mails get sent in the uk everyday. How the hell do you think they are going to listen to/read all of that? They would only use it in the event of a murder or if they got a tip off or something. To be honest I think we should all have tracking devices planted in us. It would solve 99.9% of crimes and deter most criminals.

All I can is that you have a naively benign view of the state. Every system has its flaws and is open to abuse. Just think how tempting it would be for a government to use a database like this to dig up dirt about political opponents. And tracking devices? You've got to be kidding.

 

The right to privacy is a key part of any liberal democracy, and it's one of the first things a dictatorship is quick to erase. It's quite sad that the liberties our ancestors fought for are all being cast aside for the sake of 'security', and all the public can do is say "well if you have nothing to hide...". It's a ridiculous argument. I suppose on the same grounds we may as well have cameras in our houses to make sure we don't break the law.

 

As a wise man once said, "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither". The UK was more under threat from terrorism in the 1980s - we didn't fearfully give up our liberties then and we shouldn't now.

[Twozzok]

All i'm telling you is what i've heard, and trust me, my source isn't some bullshit concpiracy theory on some random website.

 

And what is this source then...

 

or is it so secret you'd have to kill us if you told us?

[Supergrunch]

Is your theory so complicated that your brain would explode if you even began to understand it?

[MoogleViper]

All I can is that you have a naively benign view of the state. Every system has its flaws and is open to abuse. Just think how tempting it would be for a government to use a database like this to dig up dirt about political opponents. And tracking devices? You've got to be kidding.

 

The right to privacy is a key part of any liberal democracy, and it's one of the first things a dictatorship is quick to erase. It's quite sad that the liberties our ancestors fought for are all being cast aside for the sake of 'security', and all the public can do is say "well if you have nothing to hide...". It's a ridiculous argument. I suppose on the same grounds we may as well have cameras in our houses to make sure we don't break the law.

 

As a wise man once said, "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither". The UK was more under threat from terrorism in the 1980s - we didn't fearfully give up our liberties then and we shouldn't now.

 

I'd rather give up these so called "liberties" yet my life won't be changed in the slightest than walk through the streets knowing that any old prick could kick the shit out of me and there would be very little the police could do about it.

[Moohawk!]

I'd rather give up these so called "liberties" yet my life won't be changed in the slightest than walk through the streets knowing that any old prick could kick the shit out of me and there would be very little the police could do about it.

 

The biggest 'terrorists' around right now are our own government. They scaremonger to change the way people think as wonderfully exampled in the comment above. They WANT you to think "Oh I'll give up this if it means I don't get killed/get beaten upon/whatever."

 

It's not just paranoia folks. Our country is the most surveilled on the planet yet security cameras have been proven to have a relatively minor effect in both deterring crime and locking up criminals.

[MoogleViper]

The biggest 'terrorists' around right now are our own government. They scaremonger to change the way people think as wonderfully exampled in the comment above. They WANT you to think "Oh I'll give up this if it means I don't get killed/get beaten upon/whatever."

 

It's not just paranoia folks. Our country is the most surveilled on the planet yet security cameras have been proven to have a relatively minor effect in both deterring crime and locking up criminals.

 

I've not been brainwashed by the government. If you ask me they are doing jack shit to stop crime. I live near some pretty shitty areas. The village where I go to school was the worst place for drugs a few years ago. I've seen people get beaten up. I've had friends who have been beaten up and the police have done nothing about it. My uncle owned a store shop and some people broke into it and stole some stuff. And when my uncle tried to stop them they chased him down the street with knives. They were a family who are quite infamous and feared around here. When he went to the police they told him not to mess with them.

 

Bollocks to privacy. There are 60 million people in this country. They can't monitor everyone. But they can monitor the criminals.

[Strider]

Why is everybody so bothered about this? If you aren't a criminal then you've got nothing to hide. And they most certainly aren't going to read your texts. Billions of phone calls, texts and e-mails get sent in the uk everyday. How the hell do you think they are going to listen to/read all of that? They would only use it in the event of a murder or if they got a tip off or something. To be honest I think we should all have tracking devices planted in us. It would solve 99.9% of crimes and deter most criminals.

 

I have a suspicion that the criminals wouldn't go willingly be 'chipped'. Tracking devices wouldn't work anyway, people that didn't have them would most likely pull off bigger crimes than they do now as they'd be sort of 'invisible'.

 

As for logging calls, texts and emails i doubt it would really make a difference.

[MoogleViper]

I have a suspicion that the criminals wouldn't go willingly be 'chipped'. Tracking devices wouldn't work anyway, people that didn't have them would most likely pull off bigger crimes than they do now as they'd be sort of 'invisible'.

 

As for logging calls, texts and emails i doubt it would really make a difference.

 

Do it at birth. And if you are caught without one then you go to jail.

[Moohawk!]

haha I'd hate to see a country run by you moogleviper!!

[MoogleViper]

haha I'd hate to see a country run by you moogleviper!!

 

Ok please tell me what is wrong with my idea? (I mean for you personally as I know it would be hard to be implemented)

[The fish]

You keep hearing on the news about Terrorists. There are no such things as Terrorists, only freedom fighters.

 

One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. I view Palestinians who attack Israeli soldiers as freedom fighters. I view Israelis who use unnecessary force against targets such as schools as terrorists.

 

I see pretty much anyone non-official military who kills what I personally term a non-combatant and claims it's part of a war as a terrorist.

 

However, I don't see Taliban as terrorists, though. I see them as a big, fat bullseye... (you shouldn't expect less from me - they are religious fundamentalists, after all...)

 

It's not just paranoia folks. Our country is the most surveilled on the planet yet security cameras have been proven to have a relatively minor effect in both deterring crime and locking up criminals.

 

Ironically, it seems you're paranoid about the government being right about something. I don't know about you, but if you show me a CCTV image of someone committing a crime, I'd say they did it. The statistics show that most juries in recent years would agree with me...

[Moohawk!]

Ok please tell me what is wrong with my idea? (I mean for you personally as I know it would be hard to be implemented)

For everyone to be chipped and tracked from birth and for you to goto jail if you're not!?!?

 

There is so much wrong with that idea. I'd rather be dead than be tracked like that. To say you have nothing to worry about if you're doing nothing wrong is not the point. It's just one step further towards a 1984 scenario and although that is the far extreme, the world is most definitely going that way.

 

I don't mean this to offend you but to be honest I think it's really sad that you seem so willing to give up your civil liberties and the basic human rights of privacy and freedom so easily.

 

Take a look at this for those that have never seen it. It's a "counter-terrorism campaign" launched by London's Metropolitan Police.

London, a huge tourist center? One of the most surveilled in the world? THE IRONY?

 

Unintentional Double Post...

 

Ironically, it seems you're paranoid about the government being right about something. I don't know about you, but if you show me a CCTV image of someone committing a crime, I'd say they did it. The statistics show that most juries in recent years would agree with me...

 

The London Guardian reports that only 3 percent of street robberies wound up getting solved using security camera footage.

 

Officials believe it is because more training is needed for police officers.

 

They added that some British citizens think the cameras don't work, so they feel as if they can commit a crime without being caught.

 

And a large part of the time, they're right.

Source - http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/371095.aspx

 

One source plucked from the arse of google. There are countless others if you're willing to google around. Yes, okay, it is cold hard evidence if you get a clear shot of someone's face committing a crime on a CCTV camera - I'm not disputing that. The fact of the matter is they don't work anywhere near as well as the police would have you believe. They don't deter crime and they don't solve crime.

[MoogleViper]

For everyone to be chipped and tracked from birth and for you to goto jail if you're not!?!?

 

There is so much wrong with that idea. I'd rather be dead than be tracked like that. To say you have nothing to worry about if you're doing nothing wrong is not the point. It's just one step further towards a 1984 scenario and although that is the far extreme, the world is most definitely going that way.

 

I don't mean this to offend you but to be honest I think it's really sad that you seem so willing to give up your civil liberties and the basic human rights of privacy and freedom so easily.

 

You still haven't given me a reason for why it's a bad idea. Other than we would lose our civil liberties.

 

Would your life become worse or less pleasant in any way, shape or form?

[Charlie]

For everyone to be chipped and tracked from birth and for you to goto jail if you're not!?!?

 

There is so much wrong with that idea. I'd rather be dead than be tracked like that. To say you have nothing to worry about if you're doing nothing wrong is not the point. It's just one step further towards a 1984 scenario and although that is the far extreme, the world is most definitely going that way.

 

I don't mean this to offend you but to be honest I think it's really sad that you seem so willing to give up your civil liberties and the basic human rights of privacy and freedom so easily.

 

Take a look at this for those that have never seen it. It's a "counter-terrorism campaign" launched by London's Metropolitan Police.

London, a huge tourist center? One of the most surveilled in the world? THE IRONY?

 

Unintentional Double Post...

 

 

 

 

Source - http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/371095.aspx

 

One source plucked from the arse of google. There are countless others if you're willing to google around. Yes, okay, it is cold hard evidence if you get a clear shot of someone's face committing a crime on a CCTV camera - I'm not disputing that. The fact of the matter is they don't work anywhere near as well as the police would have you believe. They don't deter crime and they don't solve crime.

 

 

There's 3% of crimes with the people who committed them getting punished right there. So you would rather those 3% of people walk free than have some CCTV?

[Shino]

I don't think they need more surveillance, the police knows were to go if they want criminals. The problem lies in the judicial system, criminals have a feeling of impunity, and are more protected than they should. Of course that's just for normal criminality, I believe having 1 terrorist attack every 5 years isn't that bad for it to need these extreme measures.

 

But, I do believe that in the future we'll have something between modern day China and the Western world.

[Sanchez]

The goverment could monitor 60 million people easily these days. Assuming they have access to all the emails you send and recieve. They can start building a database of information associated to this email address (or Ip address), eventually they will be able to link it to someone in real life and with some fairly complicated algorithms it would all be automated. A database of where you live, what you buy, where you go for holiday, all the people associated with you, what you download, who you vote for, so on so forth. If the goverment was allowed to do this and it got into the wrong hands it could mean a disaster, greatly simplifying destruction of political opposition and theoretically put the country into one of the dystopian societies everyone loves to read or watch about.

[Twozzok]

The goverment could monitor 60 million people easily these days. Assuming they have access to all the emails you send and recieve. They can start building a database of information associated to this email address (or Ip address), eventually they will be able to link it to someone in real life and with some fairly complicated algorithms it would all be automated. A database of where you live, what you buy, where you go for holiday, all the people associated with you, what you download, who you vote for, so on so forth. If the goverment was allowed to do this and it got into the wrong hands it could mean a disaster, greatly simplifying destruction of political opposition and theoretically put the country into one of the dystopian societies everyone loves to read or watch about.

 

Oh wait, google already does this.

 

EDIT: Well, not exactly, but it wouldn't be hard to extrapolate it.

 

 

DEATH TO GOOGLE!

[Raining_again]

You still haven't given me a reason for why it's a bad idea. Other than we would lose our civil liberties.

 

Would your life become worse or less pleasant in any way, shape or form?

 

I know mine wouldn't. Well as long as my dearest parents had no access to said data

 

You know what they say, if you've got nothing to hide... yada yada. I'm not really that bothered about people seeing my texts etc. You would be stupidly boring if you wanted to read peoples messages...

 

I know a lot of people that have been at the brunt of some evil shit. One of my college friends went into the "wrong area" full of protestant evils, and he got the crap kicked out of him. Had to get 3 metal screws in his jaw, it was so badly broken. The people that did were never caught, despite it happening right outside a police station.

 

I can understand the security factor... But security breeches go on all the time. The office beside mine leaves confidential patient documents sitting all over their desk for anyone to see. People leave our security code door open for any random person to walk in, despite the fact someone got threatened with a knife a few years ago. And I work in the NHS for christs sakes. They hold huge amounts of info!