KingOfHyrule

Official Issues and Problems Thread

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I’ve decided to make a thread dedicated to explaining all the jargon surrounding the Wii’s video display capabilities because it seems some people either aren’t sure of how it works or what the hell it all means, and some probably don’t care either – so this thread’s for you.

 

1. REFRESH RATES

2. COMPOSITE, RGB, S-VIDEO, COMPONENT – Which cable do I use?

3. 16:9 WIDESCREEN

4. PROGRESSIVE SCAN

 

 

1 - REFRESH RATES

 

-- 50Hz

By default, PAL games run at a refresh rate of 50Hz, which means that the image refreshes itself 50 times in a second.

 

What are the benefits?

PAL media has superior resolution over NTSC, having 576 lines instead of 480 displayed onscreen, so staying with 50Hz means a more flickery display, but a richer, more stable colour palette.

 

 

-- 60Hz

NTSC games run at 60Hz by default, but in PAL regions most current-gen games had the option to select 60Hz, and if your TV could support 60Hz (you’ll rarely find a new TV these days that doesn’t, even the cheapest of TVs) pressing B at the bootup of most PAL GameCube games allowed the option to select either 50Hz or 60Hz. Some PAL games actually only ran in 60Hz (Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, The Legend Of Zelda Collector’s Edition), so the people with TVs unable to support it couldn’t play them properly – time to upgrade that ould banger!

 

What are the benefits?

Selecting 60Hz means that the display would flicker less and motion would be cleaner and smoother (albeit inferior to 50Hz in terms of colour), refreshing 60 times a second instead of 50.

 

 

-- PAL60

PAL games produced in PAL60 basically have the benefits of both 50Hz and 60Hz displays – the same richness from PAL and the 60Hz speed from NTSC. Who knows, maybe Wii games will be produced in PAL60?

 

All in all it’s a personal preference whether to run 50Hz or 60Hz. Most people select 60Hz because it’s noticeably smoother and the difference in colour is not overly apparent.

 

 

2 - COMPOSITE, S-VIDEO, RGB, COMPONENT – Which cable do I use?

 

-- COMPOSITE

SU_ConTyp01.jpg

 

Composite cables were the standard cables included with GameCube in all regions, and will probably be included with Wii too. The video signal is carried on the yellow cable, and L & R audio signals on the red and white respectively. The majority of users probably used composite for the simple reason that the cable was included with the machine and it meant not having to go and buy another cable for the sake of improved display quality. Most DVD players, VCRs and other video devices include RCA (composite) jacks, but in Europe SCART connectors are just as widespread, which can carry RGB signals.

 

 

-- S-VIDEO

wii-accessories-20061011003639506.jpg

 

While S-Video was not supported in PAL GameCubes, NTSC ones did support it. S-Video is technically also a type of component signal because it splits brightness and colour signals, but it is the most inferior if included in that bracket. It is an improvement over composite, but not over RGB.

 

Wii officially supports S-Video, presumably in all regions this time.

 

 

-- RGB

B000JJRV8Q.02._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V36414857_.jpg

 

The Nintendo RGB cable for GameCube was somewhat difficult to come across in Europe, but those who wanted it badly enough sought it and found it! RGB is a component signal, splitting the display into red/green/blue, giving a far superior colour display and richer visuals. Because RGB is carried via a SCART connection, the audio signal was also included as one, annoying home theatre owners since they could not connect the audio to their surround sound system.

 

Wii will support RGB and will be readily available at launch, since its predecessor did and proved successful. Unfortunately the Wii RGB cable will also not include separate audio jacks.

 

 

-- COMPONENT

B000JJRV90.02._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V36414939_.jpg

 

The daddyo of video signals available to GameCube and Wii. Component cables again split the video signal into three, and are most commonly transferred using RCA connectors, which look similar to composite connectors. The quality is far superior to all of the video signals available to the console, and importantly allows games to run in Progressive Scan where available, and also HDTV where available, albeit not on Nintendo’s consoles.

 

 

 

4 - 16:9 WIDESCREEN

Games running in widescreen basically are made to fit the entire width of a widescreen TV without stretching the image. More of the onscreen action is displayed making use of the wider frame. As an example, most GameCube games such as The Legend Of Zelda: The Wind Waker were produced in 4:3 for optimum display on a square shaped TV screen, whereas The Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess for Wii (and all other first party Wii games) will display in 16:9 wth the option of 4:3 as well.

 

widefullhd4.jpg

 

widefb2.jpg

 

As you can see, 4:3 games are intended for a square TV and look stretched and disfigured on a widescreen. Widescreen TVs usually include the option to display in 4:3 to keep the proper resolution unstretched, but this results in black bars being displayed to the left and right of the action.

 

It's also worth noting that while 16:9 games are very likely to include a 4:3 option to cater for people without a widscreen TV, running the game in 16:9 on a square TV will result in black bars being displayed above and below the frame, much like running a widescreen DVD on a square TV. It's a much of a muchness for square TV owners; whether you want a full-frame display with less of the action onscreen, or all of the action with black bars, it's up to you.

 

 

 

5 - PROGRESSIVE SCAN

As a standard, games run in interlaced mode, which means that every other horizontal line on the screen is displayed in sequence – odd lines first, then even lines, resulting in onscreen flicker. Most upmarket TVs and monitors have a "natural" display mode or 100Hz mode, which is designed to make the image more stable, but it's not progressive scan, as the display is still interlaced.

 

In NTSC regions, because of the 480 lines displayed onscreen, interlaced display is known as 480i, and in PAL regions because of the 576 lines, 576i (i for interlaced).

 

Progressive scan means that the odd lines and even lines are displayed together, giving a much richer, stable image and much less flicker. This is known as 480p/576p for obvious reasons.

 

Again, NTSC regions are 60Hz and PAL are 50Hz by default, so this can be addressed as 480i60/480p60 and 576i50/576p50 respectively. Jesus, what a mouthful!

 

Here's an exaggerated diagram from Wikipedia to explain the difference. The refresh rate is at 10Hz to slow things down enough to make the flicker obvious, but the same idea applies to anything in interlaced mode and at any refresh rate. As you can see, progressive is much smoother and sharper.

 

interlace10hznw3.gif

 

It is false to say that PAL GameCubes did not support progressive scan – they actually did, it’s just that PAL games did not include the option to display in progressive. If one connected the Nintendo Component Cable to a TV capable of displaying in 480p, bought an NTSC game capable of the progressive display and ran it on a PAL GameCube using Freeloader, progressive scan is entirely possible.

 

480 interlaced and progressive is the highest resolution that Wii will be able to display. As a comparison, Xbox360 can display 720p (720 horizontal lines resolution in progressive) which is considered High Definition. 480i and 576i are what are known as SDTV (Standard Definition TV) and while 480p/576p is not High Def, it's what's known as EDTV (Enhanced Definition TV).

 

Not every TV supports anything higher than 576i. If there are component connectors on your TV, it’s likely that you’ll be able to run Wii in progressive scan, but double check your TV’s manual before buying the cables. If you own a HDTV, you’re all set anyway.

 

 

 

Hope this all helped - if anything appears to be incorrect, please let me know and I'll happily amend it! :hehe:

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Thanks a lot for this :D I think this should be stickied. I would definitely want to read through it at a later date.

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Thanks a lot man! Do you recommend I stick with my crappy tv for the wii or try and set it up with a monitor? I didn't see anyhting about that in your faq I know some 360 people have done this it might not be possible I guess with Wii.

 

But thanks again that was a class read! :smile:

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Thanks a lot man! Do you recommend I stick with my crappy tv for the wii or try and set it up with a monitor? I didn't see anyhting about that in your faq I know some 360 people have done this it might not be possible I guess with Wii.

 

But thanks again that was a class read! :smile:

 

Yeah I could have thrown in info about connecting to a monitor but I don't think Wii is going to support DVI - you could connect to a monitor maybe through a VGA box with a component IN? The best you'll get from Wii will most likely be connected to a HDTV in progressive scan :)

 

Thanks for all the feedback on the thread by the way!

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nice thread :)

 

about Wind Waker example... Nintendo could easily force a 16:9 mode in pretty much every game with a transparent GUI in Wii.

 

widescreenootub0.jpg

 

let's hope they add it, because it's dead easy.

 

Also; comparsion pics :D

 

Example 1

Composite:

 

comp2fi0.jpg

 

S-video:

 

sv2gj4.jpg

 

Example 2

Composite:

 

comp4ad1.jpg

 

S-video:

 

sv4am2.jpg

 

Example 3

 

Composite -> S-video

 

svid11hi7.jpg

 

I don't have comparations with Composite/S-video and RGB (nor progressive scan) though.

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Nice comparison pics, I'm definetely getting an S-video cable.

 

I'll make a pic of my Cube running Zelda in widescreen, you won't believe your eyes.

 

There they go, the first one is 50 Hz and it gets stretched like usual, but when I turn on 60 Hz mode -> :bouncy:

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Nice pics! It would be great to show the comparison between all the video modes but we'd need someone with all the gear to do it and capture the screens.

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Is there any point in getting an S-video cable or component cable for my cube now? Wii is just round the corner and we don't know whether the cables will be the same. But does anyone know where to get one of these cables just in case they are the same ports?

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Is there any point in getting an S-video cable or component cable for my cube now? Wii is just round the corner and we don't know whether the cables will be the same. But does anyone know where to get one of these cables just in case they are the same ports?

 

If your Cube is a PAL, don't get an S-Video cable, PAL machines don't support it (as mentioned in the top post ;) lol). If you have an RGB cable, you're already achieving better quality than S-Video anyway.

 

Component cables are great if you have NTSC games and want to play in progressive on a supporting TV, but otherwise there's little significant difference between RGB and Component in interlaced modes. Choice is yours!

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Example 4:

 

-> http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=nl_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.htforum.nl%2fyabbse%2findex.php%3ftopic%3d30998.0

 

Not a gamecube game, but I believe it is the only 1080i game on Xbox, Dragon Lair. The graphics are really horible though.

 

The pics are taken from outside the TV, so they're not a actual screenshots, just how they appear: (in a 1080i HDTV, I guess)

 

 

NTSC 480i/p

Composite -> S-video -> Progressive Scan

ntsccomposite120hzsgp6.jpgntscsvideo120hzsoy3.jpgntsccomponent480psal4.jpg

 

PAL 576i(?) (component)

palcomponent100hzsxx2.jpg

 

Example 5:

Composite:

 

soulacompostouh6.jpg

 

S-video:

 

soulsvadg4.jpg

 

As far as I know... they are from the GC version, and they're also pics taken from outside the TV. (dunno what TV is though, appart from being flat)

 

EDIT:

Nice comparison pics, I'm definetely getting an S-video cable.

 

I'll make a pic of my Cube running Zelda in widescreen, you won't believe your eyes.

 

There they go, the first one is 50 Hz and it gets stretched like usual, but when I turn on 60 Hz mode -> :bouncy:

 

iwatabombshell3kiga7.jpg

 

I said WOW! does WW support true 16:9 ratio then? :bowdown:

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What happens to a widescreen game when it's on a non-widescreen tv? I'm sure that is a really really ridiculously simple question, but I really knew nothing about video displays until now.

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What happens to a widescreen game when it's on a non-widescreen tv? I'm sure that is a really really ridiculously simple question, but I really knew nothing about video displays until now.
Depends on which 16:9 mode it is, and how is the TV configured...

 

16:9 EDTV:

tloztpwii480pgs1.jpg

 

16:9 EDTV forced 4:3:

tloztpwii43zp6.jpg

 

16:9 SDTV:

tloztpwiirt7.jpg

 

16:9 SDTV forced 4:3:

tloztpwii43sdgy8.jpg

 

4:3 w/ blackbars:

tloztpwiiblackbarsrp6.jpg

 

16:9 ratio in a 4:3 TV:

tloztpwiiscretchedyx4.jpg

 

These photos are meant to show aspect ratios, mostly. since true 480p 16:9 is EDTV (853x480), 16:9 on the 16:9 SDTV should just be the 640x480 scretched mode (last image) scretched into a 16:9 ratio screen. thus... 16:9 SDTV won't be outputted at 640x360 (as shown) but rather 640x480.

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Good read. :) I knew the terminology, but it's good to be able to compare images and actually see the improvement.

 

I used RGB scart for my Gamecube and I was happy with the image quality. But I do hope Wii will support progressive scan in PAL regions. If it does, then I might consider picking up a cheap HDTV. ;) Woolworths has a nice 32" LCD for £400.

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Good read. :) I knew the terminology, but it's good to be able to compare images and actually see the improvement.

 

I used RGB scart for my Gamecube and I was happy with the image quality. But I do hope Wii will support progressive scan in PAL regions. If it does, then I might consider picking up a cheap HDTV. ;) Woolworths has a nice 32" LCD for £400.

 

Go buy that TV, Wii will support prog scan in all regions! :bouncy:

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I think lots of people may want to plug their wiis into computer monitors without loss of fidelity. Mainly because LCD monitors are much cheaper than LCD tvs

 

http://www.gottohav.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Xbox360dvicomponent

 

This cable sends component out to a DVI monitor in(a custom xbox cable). So in principle is it possible for a 3rd party to make such a cable for the wii ? or indeed nintendo?

 

(As the advert reads some monitors would accept analogue component through DVI).

 

 

great thread btw

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I think lots of people may want to plug their wiis into computer monitors without loss of fidelity. Mainly because LCD monitors are much cheaper than LCD tvs

 

Are you serious?! Decent sized monitors are more expensive than LCD TV's, otherwise I'd have an LCD monitor rather than my 27" TV!

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Are you serious?! Decent sized monitors are more expensive than LCD TV's, otherwise I'd have an LCD monitor rather than my 27" TV!

 

of course you are right in that case. I was thinking 19" bedroom size that double as computer monitors where space is limited. Some canny budget deals around approx £130. Price seems to double when they add tv capabilities.

 

Not sure how happy i would be typing a word document on a 27" computer monitor though! At that size computer monitors will probably stay expensive as there is no market for them!

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