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Have Sony/MS forgot about 'new' gamers?

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Whilst the few deem Nintendo have forgot about core gamers it seems to me like Sony and MS have forgot about new/casual gamers.

Take this little story for instance...

 

I recently had the 'pleasure' of attending a RARE/MS party which included a set up of 360 games and booze. The party was a complete failure in many peoples eyes...Why?

 

Because of the software available to play.

 

Many pods were full of gamers crowded around Gears of War/Viva Pinata/Kameo and Project Gotham Racing 4. After a few hours it was the same people playing these games over and over again. I asked various people playing them what they liked about it. The response was unanimous: They all owned the game or had previously played the game at home. I then spoke to some people sat down not playing games and asked them if they had liked any games. Again the response was unanimous: No. Some had played Viva Pinata yet found they had to invest too much time learning all of the buttons/menus to play it. It was apparent - Many of these people had an interest in gaming yet were not even playing because the games were alien to them.

 

Some people were even sat playing pictochat on their DS's. A bold statement for sure.

 

After discussions with many people it became apparent to me that MS are probably clamouring for a "friendly" game? Something akin to a party game accessible for all. There was one XBOX Arcade pod sitting primarily empty for long periods of time offering jetpac. Simple enough for non-gamers? Perhaps. Accessible? Hmmm. I was spotting a trend.

 

And so I figured RARE are possibly the closest MS will get to appealing to a different audience. (Especially with a new Viva Pinata party game in the works). And yet RARE seemed a different company now. A marketting exec talked to his companion for 10mins about if HALO3 was really a "ten" game. (Out of interest they said the single player wasn't, multiplayer was). They then discussed BIOSHOCK and said it was great and never mentioned anyother form of game. (Only FPS fans?? You decide).

 

And yet I feel with the PS3 Sony could have been on top form pushing a new kind of Singstar and eyetoy ... yet this has also been shunned for raw power. Even with their motion controller nothing simple,accessible has been produced yet.

 

So it apears Nintendo have the party/casual market sewn up. Yet with their IP's being considerably viewed as "core" games (Zelda, Metroid, Mario) and with developers like Capcom, Sega, Rockstar, Konami backing Nintendo with traditional games (Resi,NiGHTS,Bully,Pro Evo to name but a few) I think rather than us focusing on Nintendo's console ignoring CORE gamers. Maybe we should be applauding them and looking at MS and SONY as the ones ignoring gamers.

 

Without new gamers our hobby will never be appreciated nor seen as a viable form of entertainment. We should want as many people as possible to enjoy what we are already a part of.

 

Thoughts anyone?

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What you said was pretty right in my eyes.

I know plenty of people who aren't bothered to play some games because of the complicated controls.

Meanwhile, Nintendo is creating and marketing games that are accessible to new gamers. A few friends of mine really liked WarioWare for having such simplistic rules.

 

But that Core/Casual distinction still bothers me.

The only distinction it should be made would be the simple games and complex games. After all, there are plenty of people who like both, not just one.

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Excellent little article there. It's a really new slant on this argument. People are accusing Nintendo of forgetting the 'core' gamer, but have Microsoft and SONY totally neglected the wider audience?

 

I think they have, in their quest to deliver the ultimate 'high-end' hardware and software to match, they have made gaming in-accessible to the wider audience in both terms of price and the nature of the software.

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Well I think it is wrong here to paint Sony and Microsoft with the same brush. Here's why.

 

Microsoft, ever since its entrance into the video game market, has always aimed at the hardcore gamer. Yes there are titles like Viva Pinata, but in reality the casual market is not where Microsoft has ever wanted to be. Power and online gaming is how it has tried to acheive status as a maker hardcore games, and I think it is fair to say that at least in some repects it has succeded. I do not think you will find a true gamer anywhere who will deny that Microsoft have done a blody good job in the hardcore market, especially with Live. So I think it is unfair to say that Microsoft has forgotten or ignored the casual market, because it never really wanted it in the first place, be it a mistake or not.

 

Sony on the other hand do fall to your accusations. Sony were the company that 10 years ago really started to expand the market and reached out to gamers who didn't want epic JRPGs and had as nuts brawlers, with easy to play sports games and sandbox games. Easy to get into and no pressure to follow a progressional story line. These continued on the PS2 with eye toy and singstar. True attempts to reach that untapped market. However now it has ignored, or maybe forgotten that market. The PS3 is catered for us hardcores, Hi-Def games for Hi-Def Tvs. Massive games (at massive prices). The eye toy has resigned itself from the position of window cleaning games to card battlers (awesome though it may be). And now Sony is locked in a losing battle with Microsoft over a relatively small patch of land. If Sony wants to regain the #1 spot its going to have to remember how it got there in the first place.

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Well I think it is wrong here to paint Sony and Microsoft with the same brush. Here's why.

 

Microsoft, ever since its entrance into the video game market, has always aimed at the hardcore gamer. Yes there are titles like Viva Pinata, but in reality the casual market is not where Microsoft has ever wanted to be. Power and online gaming is how it has tried to acheive status as a maker hardcore games, and I think it is fair to say that at least in some repects it has succeded. I do not think you will find a true gamer anywhere who will deny that Microsoft have done a blody good job in the hardcore market, especially with Live. So I think it is unfair to say that Microsoft has forgotten or ignored the casual market, because it never really wanted it in the first place, be it a mistake or not.

 

Sony on the other hand do fall to your accusations. Sony were the company that 10 years ago really started to expand the market and reached out to gamers who didn't want epic JRPGs and had as nuts brawlers, with easy to play sports games and sandbox games. Easy to get into and no pressure to follow a progressional story line. These continued on the PS2 with eye toy and singstar. True attempts to reach that untapped market. However now it has ignored, or maybe forgotten that market. The PS3 is catered for us hardcores, Hi-Def games for Hi-Def Tvs. Massive games (at massive prices). The eye toy has resigned itself from the position of window cleaning games to card battlers (awesome though it may be). And now Sony is locked in a losing battle with Microsoft over a relatively small patch of land. If Sony wants to regain the #1 spot its going to have to remember how it got there in the first place.

 

Excellent post.

 

I remember watching a Bonus Round on GT a while back and there was a guy on there saying how Microsoft do want a piece of the casual cake. Apparently Viva Pinata was the testing grounds for the casual market on the 360 but it didnt sell very well ( it should have it was/is freaking awesome ) You can see that Microsoft are trying to break into the casual market with the arcade packs and games like Scene It but I really wish they wouldnt bother.

 

As lazy boy pointed out Microsofts focus is mainly the traditional style of gamer so aslong as the 360 keeps getting games like Orange Box, Halo 3, Gears of War, PGR4 etc then I think its fine. Dont get me wrong im sure Microsoft would want a bigger share of the casual market but its just not going to happen.

 

What Nintendo have done with Wii is brilliant. Their competition have released various models of their machines which confuses non gamers where as Nintendo just released the 1 type of Wii, basically keeping it simple. Nintendo pretty much dominate the casual market now and they have become a household name again, not just for gamers but for the everyday people aswell.

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I think the thread title is pretty much a given - but the reason most focus on the Nintendo side is because its the "hardcore" gamers who discuss these things.

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Well to be honest, if they haven't the time to learn the controls, they can go away. I don't want a market full of simple controls that consists of 2 buttons, gah that would suck baaad, I want a mixture of both games and owning all consoles gives me that.

 

It's the same for anything that people enjoy, if you haven't got the willpower to stay and learn, then you aren't going to get anything. It can be applied to any situation.

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Whilst the few deem Nintendo have forgot about core gamers it seems to me like Sony and MS have forgot about new/casual gamers.

 

What? Since when did games like Halo not be casual gamer games?

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Whilst the few deem Nintendo have forgot about core gamers it seems to me like Sony and MS have forgot about new/casual gamers.

Take this little story for instance...

 

I recently had the 'pleasure' of attending a RARE/MS party which included a set up of 360 games and booze. The party was a complete failure in many peoples eyes...Why?

 

Because of the software available to play.

 

Many pods were full of gamers crowded around Gears of War/Viva Pinata/Kameo and Project Gotham Racing 4. After a few hours it was the same people playing these games over and over again. I asked various people playing them what they liked about it. The response was unanimous: They all owned the game or had previously played the game at home. I then spoke to some people sat down not playing games and asked them if they had liked any games. Again the response was unanimous: No. Some had played Viva Pinata yet found they had to invest too much time learning all of the buttons/menus to play it. It was apparent - Many of these people had an interest in gaming yet were not even playing because the games were alien to them.

 

Some people were even sat playing pictochat on their DS's. A bold statement for sure.

 

After discussions with many people it became apparent to me that MS are probably clamouring for a "friendly" game? Something akin to a party game accessible for all. There was one XBOX Arcade pod sitting primarily empty for long periods of time offering jetpac. Simple enough for non-gamers? Perhaps. Accessible? Hmmm. I was spotting a trend.

 

And so I figured RARE are possibly the closest MS will get to appealing to a different audience. (Especially with a new Viva Pinata party game in the works). And yet RARE seemed a different company now. A marketting exec talked to his companion for 10mins about if HALO3 was really a "ten" game. (Out of interest they said the single player wasn't, multiplayer was). They then discussed BIOSHOCK and said it was great and never mentioned anyother form of game. (Only FPS fans?? You decide).

 

And yet I feel with the PS3 Sony could have been on top form pushing a new kind of Singstar and eyetoy ... yet this has also been shunned for raw power. Even with their motion controller nothing simple,accessible has been produced yet.

 

So it apears Nintendo have the party/casual market sewn up. Yet with their IP's being considerably viewed as "core" games (Zelda, Metroid, Mario) and with developers like Capcom, Sega, Rockstar, Konami backing Nintendo with traditional games (Resi,NiGHTS,Bully,Pro Evo to name but a few) I think rather than us focusing on Nintendo's console ignoring CORE gamers. Maybe we should be applauding them and looking at MS and SONY as the ones ignoring gamers.

 

Without new gamers our hobby will never be appreciated nor seen as a viable form of entertainment. We should want as many people as possible to enjoy what we are already a part of.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Good article.

 

But one question that always bothers me:

 

Why are Nintendo fans so quick to declare themselves "winners" of this generation when the console fails to cater for the majority of the market?

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Good article.

 

But one question that always bothers me:

 

Why are Nintendo fans so quick to declare themselves "winners" of this generation when the console fails to cater for the majority of the market?

 

What do you mean the Wii doesn't cater for the majority of the market? That's exactly the point, the Wii is selling so well because it's a different appraoch which DOES cater for a huge market which the PS3 and the 360 don't cater for.

 

There is huge potential out there and a huge amount of people who want to play games but are put off by huge time sapping quests, massive complex button combos and intense shoot-outs. They want something accesible and fun that they can pick up and play.

 

It's Nintendo that is catering for that market, which is where the industry growth is. The Wii has already outsold the 360 and is destroying the PS3 in terms of sales. So how exactly is the Wii not catering for the majority when it has sold the most consoles and it's software sales are far better than the 360s were in it's first year? Please explain.

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Good article.

 

But one question that always bothers me:

 

Why are Nintendo fans so quick to declare themselves "winners" of this generation when the console fails to cater for the majority of the market?

 

You must live in the twilight zone.

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Good article.

 

But one question that always bothers me:

 

Why are Nintendo fans so quick to declare themselves "winners" of this generation when the console fails to cater for the majority of the market?

 

 

Nintendo are creating what the majority of the market is with the Wii- the blue ocean.

 

If Nintendo hadn't decided to try and expand gaming then we'd be left with a machine for hardcore Nintendo gamers, with only Nintendo games on it because once again other people would be scared to go up against the Nintendo games and put their games onto it.

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Why are Nintendo fans so quick to declare themselves "winners" of this generation ...

 

Sorry, I've got to cut you short there - I'm about to receive my gold medal.

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Sony and Microsoft haven't forgot about the casual gamer, just they're not currently in their plans. They both follow the same pattern of releasing the console at a high price-point to get the hardcore gamer crowd, and then drop the price down and slowly expand to get more and more casuals. As time goes by you will see more stuff from Sony to try get this market, but to be honest I think by then it'll be too late.

 

See, Nintendo have completely rewritten that path of a console. Instead of getting the hardcore gamer, then working their way down the price points to get more of the mainstream, they've gone straight in with a console which has appeal to both hardcore gamers and the mainstream from launch. Moreso, they've put it at a pricepoint, given it suitable software and backed it with heavy marketed from the off, and it's working.

 

So in answer, Sony and Microsoft haven't forgotten about the casual market, just they planned to leave them behind until they could get their price below $200. Thing is, it looks like there's going to be no market left as Nintendo are pretty much taking it all for themselves, while also adding new people to the market and getting a section (albeit smaller) of hardcore gamers.

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Sony and Microsoft are concentrating on the casual market. It's just a different part of the casual market to what Nintendo are concentrating on.

 

Hardcore games don't exist on the market - it's just a marketing word and for casual gamers who call the games they play "hardcore" to make themselves feel "cool"

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Core gamers = less marketing, more money.

 

But MGS haven't forgotten casual gamers. Actually, they enforce their games have a moderate difficultly setting, to accommodate for the average Joe.

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I don't think either company is ignoring the casual market, but circumstance has taken them rather by surprise. The Wii was built from the ground up as a more accessible, family-friendly console, and to be frank I don't think anyone truly expected it to sell as well as it has. The 360 and PS3 were designed for existing gamers, so at the most basic level they face certain barriers when trying to appeal to the wider market: traditional controllers, higher price tags, a lack of more accessible games. However, you will see things improve for these consoles.

 

Titles like SingStar and Buzz! did very well on the PS2, but they came later in the machine's life when market penetration was much deeper and the price was far more attractive. PS3 versions of those 2 titles are just around the corner, but their success will be far more long term as realistically those that bought a PS2 for karaoke aren't going to go and spend £300 to play a HD version. However, in several years' time when the machine is available for the fraction of the price, Sony's plan is to still have both games up and running via use of downloadable tracks and question packs. On top of that there will be other titles in place, such as numerous PlayStation Eye applications and games, episodic titles over PSN, and most likely a whole wave of titles that focus on user-generated content such as Little Big Planet.

 

Microsoft are also pushing towards more mass market appeal. For instance there's the new Arcade pack which is designed to offer a lower cost of entry, and I'm sure we'll see several Scene It! — basically Buzz! for the 360 — bundles doing the rounds. However, I do think that perhaps they aren't pushing what they have as hard as they perhaps should be. Viva Pinata was barely advertised, and the Xbox adverts that do exist centre around hardcore titles like Halo or Gears of War. They pretty much have the price point, but the more casual games simply aren't there, and what is doesn't seem to be being marketed. Still, I think you'll see this change in the not too distant future.

 

(The interesting thing is that before the launch of the 360 Microsoft were very vocal about their wish to entice the wider market — "You're sister will be designing clothes and selling them in Tony Hawk!", the abysmal Core pack, etcetera — but this seems to have dissipated over time: perhaps their ostensible capture of the core market came as a surprise?)

 

Both companies are playing catch up to Nintendo, no doubt about it, but each machine is taking its own path. In the end all that we can really be sure of is that it's a great time to be a gamer.

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Well since when have Sony & Microsoft aimed at the casual market themselves ever?

 

This, exactly this.

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Well since when have Sony & Microsoft aimed at the casual market themselves ever?

 

Since they first entered the video game market.

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The definition of casual market changed with DS and Wii. Before, casual were the guys who played FIFA and every fucking thing Sony put out, now casuals are the non-gamers that play things like Wii Play and Brain Training.

Honestly, doesn't matter, don't care.

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non-gamers that play things like Wii Play and Brain Training.

 

Oxymoron alert!

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