Origins of the Universe

[mariosmentor]

it's called Phi.

 

It makes shit click.

[UK]

it's called Phi.

 

It makes shit click.

 

What the hell has phi got to do with it?

[mariosmentor]

What the hell has phi got to do with it?

 

Everything my man. Everything.

[Supergrunch]

If you ask me, the golden mean is an unavoidable consequence of the laws of mathematics, and would be the same for any universe.

 

However, some would argue that different universes could have different laws of mathematics.

[jayseven]

Other threads on this forum don't seem to bothered about 'keeping on topic' so I'm going to reply to Oxigen_Waste, because he replied to me and it would be rude not to pursue this conversation

 

If you have a problem with it, just don't read it.

 

Purpose and self-worth are things that must be gained, earned!! Not acquired through reading.

 

It may be a guide on how to live among others, but it teaches everything wrong. There are countless "guidestones" on how to live in society, and the bible is probably the worst of them all. This also applies to any type of religious books. They always make worshiping your God a priority over yourself.

 

Word-of-God? The book was written by men. Period.

 

Shino phrased it better than I did in my entire, large post. The book, whoever the author, wasn't written for this time. Having said that, it doesn't mean that there aren't things in there that modern humans cannot take and use effectively.

 

I agree that those things must be earned, but it doesn't mean to say that everybody instinctively knows how to do this, which is why sometimes people look for guidance.

 

Leviathans is the main book that I can think of which is very specific about how to live - all that crap about not laying in the same bed as your brother's wife and all that - about being 'dirty' and staying 'clean' and whatever.

 

Personally, if I had any faith it would be in the new testament - the teachings of Jesus rather than the punishments of an over-zealot god that you find in the old testament.

 

But anyway - I'm not christian, I'm not preaching, I'm just defending the right of others to have faith and justifying why it's not an incredably stupid thing to do.

 

There. You can have your topic back. My views on the creation of the universe are not really serious, and mostly just the culmination of several stoned theories that sound cool.

[DCK]

I agree that those things must be earned, but it doesn't mean to say that everybody instinctively knows how to do this, which is why sometimes people look for guidance.

 

Personally, if I had any faith it would be in the new testament - the teachings of Jesus rather than the punishments of an over-zealot god that you find in the old testament.

Sorry to participate in this again, but these points you make illustrate exactly why some don't understand religion.

 

The first paragraph means that religion is a way of compensating something that you don't have naturally what many do have; you're not capable of earning morals and the likes yourself so you get them from a book. Though essentially there is nothing wrong with this, it certainly doesn't mean religious people should be respected for having faith.

 

The second paragraph shows how religion likes to only take the good stuff. If something (e.g. Genesis) doesn't make sense, people keep reinterpreting everything into metaphors until they can believe it. If something cannot be reinterpreted over and over until it does make some sense (like the evil Old Testament God) people just choose to ignore it. The bottom line is, those people end up believing only the things they want to believe (this is one of the greatest flaws in the human mind) and end up claiming it is the truth.

 

Anyway, back to Universe discussion, some phi curiosities in nature (such as the one about the distance in between planets) are purely coincedential. It's a funky number though.

[jayseven]

Sorry to participate in this again, but these points you make illustrate exactly why some don't understand religion.

 

The first paragraph means that religion is a way of compensating something that you don't have naturally what many do have; you're not capable of earning morals and the likes yourself so you get them from a book. Though essentially there is nothing wrong with this, it certainly doesn't mean religious people should be respected for having faith.

Certainly, but I don't think they should be disrespected for having faith either.

 

The second paragraph shows how religion likes to only take the good stuff. If something (e.g. Genesis) doesn't make sense, people keep reinterpreting everything into metaphors until they can believe it. If something cannot be reinterpreted over and over until it does make some sense (like the evil Old Testament God) people just choose to ignore it. The bottom line is, those people end up believing only the things they want to believe (this is one of the greatest flaws in the human mind) and end up claiming it is the truth.

 

I do think you are over-exaggerating about how difficult or veiled the bible is in what it means on the most part, but I do agree that the governing bodies of religion tend to perhaps twists parts to suit their own beliefs. For sure there are parts of the bible that don't necessarily make a direct sense, but these are (to me at least) akin to fables, where not everything is a symbol but rather the story has a moral to be learnt.

 

I just don't see the difference between a bunch of bible bashers going round yelling "You're an idiot if you don't believe in god" and atheists saying "you're an idiot if you do". Regardless of what is factual or true or not, as you say, nobody is going to believe what they don't want to believe. So long as it's harmless, it's alright

 

Science changes constantly, as because of that, what we perceive as truth and fact also changes over time too. A pretty vague and non-helpful statement, but meh

[Cube]

Science changes constantly, as because of that, what we perceive as truth and fact also changes over time too. A pretty vague and non-helpful statement, but meh

 

As someone once said:

 

It's not about making sense. It's about believing in something. And letting that belief be real enough to change your life. It's about faith. You don't fix faith. It fixes you.

 

Really, religion is about believing in something to make yourself better. Some people need guidance, so they look for guidance in the form of religion. Now that we have a "set" way of life, things that religious texts "teach" us are more obvious - hence why religion is decreasing.

[Haver]

Problem is, it isn't harmless, it's positively poisonous.

 

There are four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum of servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking.

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2165033/entry/2165035/

[The fish]

Problem is, it isn't harmless, it's positively poisonous.

 

Couldn't agree more!

 

I will say it's good for helping people get over the death of a loved one, as it can be comforting, but it's ultimately a bad thing.

[DCK]

Regardless of what is factual or true or not, as you say, nobody is going to believe what they don't want to believe. So long as it's harmless, it's alright

Absolutely not! Your 'beliefs' define your sets of truth, and if you defy the truth by believing that what you want to believe, you deceive yourself and those around you. Believing in what you want to believe is harmful by definition.

[Haver]

Couldn't agree more!

 

I will say it's good for helping people get over the death of a loved one, as it can be comforting, but it's ultimately a bad thing.

 

Thing is, it's like Marx said:

 

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower.

 

I can't say it better than that. Once we come to terms with these things we can live liberated lives.

[3p!c3ntr3]

my mum said the universe began with explosion or something

[UK]

As someone once said:

 

 

 

Really, religion is about believing in something to make yourself better. Some people need guidance, so they look for guidance in the form of religion. Now that we have a "set" way of life, things that religious texts "teach" us are more obvious - hence why religion is decreasing.

 

religion is not decreasing. Mayb in the Western World, granted. However, the majority of th world's population do not live in the Western World. I'm talking millions of people converting each day, here.

 

my mum said the universe began with explosion or something

 

Your Mum should win a prize for being a top physcist, then.

[3p!c3ntr3]

Your Mum should win a prize for being a top physcist, then.

well I do think she is really great

[UK]

well I do think she is really great

 

I've read all your posts, and can I say that

a- your mum is you in diguise

b- you've got a wierd obsession with your mother, and that needs to be sorted out

or c- you have your Mum do everything for you.

 

Whatever it is, I thank the Lord that i am not your mother

[Slaggis]

I've read all your posts, and can I say that

a- your mum is you in diguise

b- you've got a wierd obsession with your mother, and that needs to be sorted out

or c- you have your Mum do everything for you.

 

Whatever it is, I thank the Lord that i am not your mother

 

 

UK! Stay on Topic, this is a interesting thread, don't get it locked mate.

[The fish]

religion is not decreasing. Mayb in the Western World, granted. However, the majority of th world's population do not live in the Western World.

 

You fail to see that the West is where most of the money and influence is.

India is secular, for the most part, and China is Buddhist, which, to be fair, isn't really a religion.

 

Most people in the West who are religion are very devote. Many are not religious due to better education than elsewhere. In the rest of the world, lack-luster education leads to people seeing their local religion as the only possible version of events.

[UK]

Whether reiligion is decreasing or not is, at this current time, irrelevant.

 

What does matter is that I honestly believe that my relgion is true, and I go to the best comprehensive in the Borough, so poor education is no excuse. Plus, good educators teach RS, so really, I can't loose.

[The fish]

Whether reiligion is decreasing or not is, at this current time, irrelevant.

 

What does matter is that I honestly believe that my relgion is true, and I go to the best comprehensive in the Borough, so poor education is no excuse. Plus, good educators teach RS, so really, I can't loose.

 

Firstly: It's 'R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N'...

 

You've misunderstood what I was saying: I meant that people who are not 'devout' are, in the West, generally not religious. Most religious people who have a good education are religious for a specific reason, not because they see no alternative 'truth'.

 

Which brings me to this: why are you religious? I don't mean "why do you believe in a (impersonal) god", I mean why Christianity specifically.

[UK]

Firstly, my God is personal.

 

And, I believe because I can. i have the ability to understand that there is a God, and Christianity, because this is a Christian country. I think Hinduism and Islam, you have to be born into.

[DomJcg]

Whether reiligion is decreasing or not is, at this current time, irrelevant.

 

What does matter is that I honestly believe that my relgion is true, and I go to the best comprehensive in the Borough, so poor education is no excuse. Plus, good educators teach RS, so really, I can't loose.

 

true in comparison to what exactly? other religions? "my gods better than your god?"

 

tbh im a pluralist (i don't care what later scripture says about it) theres no one defined path to God otherwise like, there would be no such a thing as born again christians. Also does this 'true' thing one for a denomination of christianity? I mean if your willing to forgive for your sins im happy and couldn't care less what you believed in

[The fish]

Firstly, my God is personal.

 

And, I believe because I can. i have the ability to understand that there is a God, and Christianity, because this is a Christian country. I think Hinduism and Islam, you have to be born into.

 

Two words: Martian perspective.

 

What would a Muslim or Hindu say about their faith? The exact same thing, and it would seem just as valid to them. Come on, I want a reason why you are a Christian.

 

Also, do not call this a Christian country. Never. Ever. I don't have all night to rant at you like I did to some guy on a school trip to Cornwall who said the it was.

This country is, most definitely, a secular nation.

If you say "well, it was Christian for longer than it was secular", then your argument means it's a pagan country.

 

Just to clear something up: Before people flame me, my problem is less with UK's religion, and more with the poor quality of his arguments.

 

I'll do this to most people, but the most common reason is defence of one's religion, as it's often full of so many flaws.

[Shino]

He's a 13 year old. He just doesn't know why he wants to be religious.

[Patch]

Also, do not call this a Christian country. Never. Ever. I don't have all night to rant at you like I did to some guy on a school trip to Cornwall who said the it was.

 

Just out of interest, why do you care so much? Are you offended by it?

If I called this a nation of dog lovers, do you think all the cat lovers would take it as seriously as you are doing?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4434096.stm