Jump to content
NEurope
Sign in to follow this  
corkcrumbs

problems with the wiimote?

Recommended Posts

I read on 1up an article about the future of controls. There was a quote from game designer Jaime Griesemer who said that the problem with the wii-mote is that it turns aiming into a separate entity, it adds a third interface onto the two previous ones: walk (left analog), look (right analog), and now also aim with the wii-mote. (but there’s only one analog stick, so we have a problem… and the invisible box isn’t the answer.)

 

Strange… I mean, if this is such an obvious fact, then why haven’t designers for the wii tried to remedy this? I mentioned this maybe 3 years ago when the wii had just been announced.. And I had an idea for a remedy, the simplest idea that everyone probably thought about at that time.. Let the nunchuck function both as a left analog and right.. I mean, it only featured the ”left analog”, but if u were to put a small psp style analog where the z triggers are situated, ud have a munch better control interface, but maybe impossible to master..

Another idea would be to use the nunchucks motion sensitive possibilities to control walk, and the analog stick control look, and finally the wiimote for aim… but since the wiis arrival we haven’t seen any control like the two just mentioned. Why? Are they too difficult for a gamer to master?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing wrong with the wii controller. the problem is developers are looking at it was "standard controller plus". This is wrong. Dont design the controlls around the game. Design the game around the contoller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But red steel was designed around the controller and it--as I understood--didn't have a that a great control scheme, or am I wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Idea of the Wii-mote in FPS games, I think you need to aim with it for faster more fluid gameplay, but not to turn with it. I reckon looking and turning should be done with the nunchuck and the walking and sidestep with the d-pad on the wii-mote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like the Idea of the Wii-mote in FPS games, I think you need to aim with it for faster more fluid gameplay, but not to turn with it. I reckon looking and turning should be done with the nunchuck and the walking and sidestep with the d-pad on the wii-mote.

 

Yeah, I've thought about that as well; to have the d-pad function as a "right analog", but I think it's a bit flawed maybe, it's difficult to explain why, but somehow I feel that it's a more natural experience if look and walk where set to the same device (nunchuck) and aim was handled separately with the wiimote, but I might be wrong, it's impossible to say unless you have tried it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There was a quote from game designer Jaime Griesemer who said that the problem with the wii-mote is that it turns aiming into a separate entity, it adds a third interface onto the two previous ones: walk (left analog), look (right analog), and now also aim with the wii-mote.

 

This is so true, but I think it holds true for FPS games only.

Before the Wii came out, I had always envisaged that the Wiimote would handle both looking and aiming by having a one-to-one mapping of wiimote to viewpoint (i.e. no bounding box).

 

But given the comments from developers saying this is not feasible, we are faced with FPS games being very difficult to nail the controls for. The Wiimote at first seemed like a godsend for FPS games, now we are in a position where we still don't have an FPS game with decent controls.

 

I think your idea of a second analog stick where your left index finger sits is fantastic, but as you say it may be difficult, if not impossible, to master.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But red steel was designed around the controller and it--as I understood--didn't have a that a great control scheme, or am I wrong?
Yeah, but Red Steel didn't do it well. Call of Duty 3, MoH: Vanguard and Metroid Prime 3 are much better. The Wiimote doesn't have problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I reckon looking and turning should be done with the nunchuck and the walking and sidestep with the d-pad on the wii-mote.

 

Similar to N64 shooters (if you used C-buttons for moving) and PC shooters with the plus of Direct aiming. Sounds rather good - I'd like to see that implemented somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is so true, but I think it holds true for FPS games only.

Before the Wii came out, I had always envisaged that the Wiimote would handle both looking and aiming by having a one-to-one mapping of wiimote to viewpoint (i.e. no bounding box).

 

But given the comments from developers saying this is not feasible, we are faced with FPS games being very difficult to nail the controls for. The Wiimote at first seemed like a godsend for FPS games, now we are in a position where we still don't have an FPS game with decent controls.

 

I think your idea of a second analog stick where your left index finger sits is fantastic, but as you say it may be difficult, if not impossible, to master.

 

It's probably impossible, and your idea with having the wiimote work as a mouselook is great too, and that idea has also been around several years, since the wii was announced, and it's ashame that it couldn't be realized.

 

another idea I had was to use some kind of "trigger analog stick" instead of a small analog stick.. and what i mean with trigger is that u have the analog stick placed "upside down" and when it was placed this way you had to rest your finger somewhere, hence the "trigger".. or "trigger loop".. it's actually just a loop placed at the analog sticks end, lol

 

but yeah, there probably is no good control scheme for fps type of games for the wii, sadly..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't understand why it's so difficult. Why can't you just have a 'turn button'? So like Z on the nunchuck + the analog stick/pointing allows you to turn. When you let go of Z, you stop turning and start aiming. It seems to obvious to me, I can't understand why no-one has implemented it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I really don't understand why it's so difficult. Why can't you just have a 'turn button'? So like Z on the nunchuck + the analog stick/pointing allows you to turn. When you let go of Z, you stop turning and start aiming. It seems to obvious to me, I can't understand why no-one has implemented it.

 

I'm not sure if i quite comprehend you here, sorry, or maybe I do.

 

But so that would mean that you can't look up or down when turning, and how do you walk forward backward? With the d-pad? In that case a bit cumbersome, but it's probably me that don't understand you fully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, the Bounding box solution is still way better than a dual-analogue controller. (dual-analogue has a bounding box, but aiming is much less precise)

 

edit: One thing I want to see implemented is for turning to STOP when the remote goes off-screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PC's have hardly struggled with not having a look button for FPS games and just having a bounding box instead and the wiimote can work on exactly the same principle. It just needs to be done better.

 

I don't think for most games you need to simulatenously control the camera and the character - simple solution is on any camera game use the 'C' button to centre the camera or hold it down and use the analogue stick to position the camera where you want (as with the right stick).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyway, the Bounding box solution is still way better than a dual-analogue controller. (dual-analogue has a bounding box, but aiming is much less precise)

 

edit: One thing I want to see implemented is for turning to STOP when the remote goes off-screen.

 

sounds like a good idea.

 

but I don't understand you Jay, how do you walk? and what is the wiimote used for?

 

As for my "trigger loop" idea, I actually don't like it, the most "elegant" idea is to have a small analog stick for index finger, and control look with it (since it's being placed on the side) and control walk with the larger "thumb" analog stick.

 

But I agree with you that it's difficult to need to control both look, aim and walk, that's what i wrote in the first post here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think for most games you need to simulatenously control the camera and the character - simple solution is on any camera game use the 'C' button to centre the camera or hold it down and use the analogue stick to position the camera where you want (as with the right stick).

 

Or how about :

 

Analogue stick - Move/Strafe

Pointer - Aim anywhere on screen

C + Pointer - Enable turning via pointer

 

 

I mean, it isn't easy to shoot and turn at the same time, so this will give you

 

- A bigger area to aim at

- Better turning control

 

Then you don't have to worry about how far away you move the pointer from the centre when trying to shoot someone half-way towards the edge of the screen, only for the camera to turn and for you to miss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Similar to N64 shooters (if you used C-buttons for moving) and PC shooters with the plus of Direct aiming. Sounds rather good - I'd like to see that implemented somewhere.

 

Exactly! I used to use the C-buttons to run and sidestep and the stick to aim and turn on N64 on Goldeneye. Thanks, I'm pleased at least someone can see where I'm coming from.

 

This is where Nintendo needs a great 2nd party like Rare to come up with a real killer control scheme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not sure if i quite comprehend you here, sorry, or maybe I do.

 

But so that would mean that you can't look up or down when turning, and how do you walk forward backward? With the d-pad? In that case a bit cumbersome, but it's probably me that don't understand you fully.

 

Ah, that's true if you use the analog stick for the looking. What I mean in that case then is that it would be like a 'mouselook' button with the Wiimote operating as the mouse. You just couldn't move the camera and shoot at the same time (not sure if that would be a problem).

 

Frankly, anything is better than the impenetrable dual analog method. Being a PC gamer most of the time, I just can't get my head around it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dosent aiming with the wiimote replace looking with the left stick? at least it should if the designers are crap (capcom this means you.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you imagine looking around with one analog stick, moving and strafing with another, and at the same time using the Wiimote for swordfighting? I think that would be too complicated.

 

I think the best way is a version of the lock on system that Red Steel had. Preferably one where yuo control the locking on with a button. Or the ability to press a button to disable looking around, and enable swordfighting with the Wiimote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
capcom this means you.

 

Huh?

 

They have 2 "shooting" games (the 2 RE games), both which don't need a bounding box. RE4's aiming/looking system is fantastic.

 

edit:

 

I think the best way is a version of the lock on system that Red Steel had. Preferably one where yuo control the locking on with a button.

 

Yea, Wii developers need to find a balance between what you can do and how complicated it all is.

 

MP3 seems to massively improve on the Red Steel locking on - as you can more easily move while locked on (which makes strafing around people doable).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had always envisaged that the Wiimote would handle both looking and aiming by having a one-to-one mapping of wiimote to viewpoint (i.e. no bounding box).

 

But given the comments from developers saying this is not feasible..

 

But why is this not feasible? :wtf:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But why is this not feasible? :wtf:

 

 

Because if you did a 180 turn in-game you wouldn't be able to see the screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But why is this not feasible? :wtf:

 

What if you want to shoot a guy behind you? :heh:

 

I think this would work:

aim - point at screen

walk forward/backward - analoge stick up/down

strafe - analoge stick left/right

turn around - tilt nunchuk

 

Or maybe the last two should be switched?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's what I thought the problem was as well.. but the thing is... hm...

 

Wouldn't be able to see the screen? True, the telly wouldn't be able to "translate" what you did with the remote so to speak.. you would really need to have an all encompassing telly in your living room or wherever your telly is located..

 

Put it this way, to make it more easier to comprehend. The remote combined with the nunchuck is in actuality the ultimate gadget for VR equipment, when u look around with a vr headset having a wiimote in your hand means that you can instantly point and click at something you're looking at, and the nunchuck allows you to move about in the vr world.

 

when u ship the wiimote with a console that doesn't ship with a VR headset, the two products doesn't completely match when it comes to FPS types of games. The telly just isn't "VR enough".. the nunchuck slightly remedies this problem.. problem is, it all havocs into some kind of bizarre duckhunt meets wolfenstein... it's just not that great.. developers have tried to sidestep this issue by creating the invicible box, but the only thing that did was showing how poorly modern FPS games translates onto the wii.

 

Ok, so this was just a long story that really didn't answer your question, and I actually think that you are right, it ought to be possible to have the wiimote work as a substitute to a mouse. After all, the infrared thingy on the wiimote--that makes it a very accurate pointing device--surely ought to be able to do mouselook. Can somebody explain why this isn't possible? I've never heard a good explanation to this.. so right now I'm a bit confused.

 

What if you want to shoot a guy behind you? :heh:

 

I think this would work:

aim - point at screen

walk forward/backward - analoge stick up/down

strafe - analoge stick left/right

turn around - tilt nunchuk

 

Or maybe the last two should be switched?

 

If you want to shoot a guy behind you? Well.. just how you do it with a regular pc mouse configuration I guess...

 

Sure... the above mentioned 1:1 ratio isn't that great when doing wiilook. After all, you don't have a particularly difficult 1:1 ratio with the mouse and the movement on the computer screen, but when it's a direct pointing device it gets a bit more jittery; the game would move very fast with a wiilook on the tv screen...

 

Irritating, sounds like a very small problem, and that's why I don't really buy it... but I guess it must be true... isn't it just a question of a bit longer learning curv for FPS games?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
developers have tried to sidestep this issue by creating the invicible box, but the only thing that did was showing how poorly modern FPS games translates onto the wii.

 

But the invisible box has already existed for a whole generation. Dual-Analogue controllers used an "invisible box", too. It isn't something designed for the Wii.

 

Ok, so this was just a long story that really didn't answer your question, and I actually think that you are right, it ought to be possible to have the wiimote work as a substitute to a mouse.

 

Retro Studios actually tried that - they said it felt very unnatural as you had to hold a button to turn, let go of the button, centre the remote, hold button again and move remote again to turn further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×