Are the Xbox 360 / Playstation 3 holding the industry back?

[jammy2211]

Well, I saw the thread on getting more discussion here, so I've decided to copy and paste one of my pieces of content on the site I work for. Hope we can create some discussion or whatever, it's related to the Wii so don't snud it cause of the topic title .

 

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The topic title may well have just got a few of you guys in a kafuffle, and as such I think I’m going to need to be extra careful when explaining what I mean. I’ve lately been looking at both the Xbox 360 and PS3 lineups and have been left with one question whenever I see a new game; “Where’s the innovation?â€. Companies are supposed to have a massive range of new features and power available to them in these behemoth machines, but why does everything feel like I’ve played it 5 years ago. I decided to do some research into why I may feel like this and whether this is a trend that will only be more common in the future.

 

The PS3 and Xbox 360 are both incredible pieces of technology. I’m sure we’re yet to see anything close to what either machine is capable of and that perhaps one day we’ll be looking back on games like Gears of War and Resistance: Fall of Man and questioning how dated the graphics look. Unfortunately, with this push for HD gaming and photo-realistic graphics, both machines are putting a huge amount of pressure on the finances of any company developing for the machines. Development costs for both consoles have seemingly ‘exploded’ and it’s now common place for companies to be investing $30 million on just one project.

With those sorts of overheads for just one game, is the industry honestly going to be heading in a positive direction? I think this is where my biggest worries lie in what both consoles offer. If a company is investing $25 million + on one game, the simple fact is they must be assured it’s going to sell enough to see profit. I think the best way to explain what I’m saying is in a hypothetical situation. A Big Name developer is starting a new $25 million budget project for the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they have to choose from either of the two game concepts below, which one do you think they’ll choose? :

 

• A high budget, photo-realistic, first person shooter. It will deviate slightly from the tried and tested formula that saw games like Dead Rising and Resistance: Fall of Man sell over a million copies, and simply guarantees a good profit margin.

• Or, an unproven game trying to create it’s own unique genre, with it’s own unique art style. The game could be the next big thing in gaming, but there is no guarantee it’ll go down well with the gaming world.

 

There’s no doubt, that from a personal perspective I would love to try and develop the second game listed, but from a business perspective you would simply have to develop the first. This is simply where my worries are, are we ever going to see a company risk trying to develop a completely new and innovative game when development costs are so stupidly high? Or are we simply going to see a high range of Half Life clones, Gran Turismo clones, Grand Theft Auto clones and Oblivion clones?

 

You may not be worried about what I’m saying, I can certainly enjoy games like GTA and Halo, but at the same time some my most enjoyed games are the ones which tried to create something new, fresh and innovative. If you’re a fan of the Guitar Hero series, you should be worried, if you’re looking forward to Spore, you should be worried, if you’re looking forward to LittleBigPlanet then you should certainly be worried. These are the sort of unique, unproven concepts for games that companies simply won’t be risking huge amounts of money to develop. (LittleBigPlanet is certainly one game I’m really interested by, but is very much an exception to what I am saying because it is a first party title and Sony can afford to risk developing projects like this).

 

Although on top of this, I have a bigger worry for what these sorts of development costs mean for the industry. This is, the fact that it’s forming an elitism between the big name, high budget developers and small budget, indie developers. Both consoles are creating an environment where if a team of 20 or so people want to start developing a game, it’s simply not possible. There simply isn’t the opportunity for fresh and new independent development teams to start projects on these consoles, because of the price involved in development. Some of the most unique and innovative games of last generation came from these low-key independent development teams. Just look at LittleBigPlanet, the team developing that were only discovered by Sony because they managed to make such a unique and inventive game with Rag Doll Kung Fu.

Are both of these consoles going to create an environment where companies wanting to make such unique games are simply not going to have the opportunity?

 

Of course both Microsoft and Sony have done something to try and fix this problem. They both created stores which allow users to purchase and download games from what are typically low-key indie developers to their console, for a small price. It is a nice solution but again it worries me, seeing as firstly it gives these games a limited audience (To only those who have connected their consoles online), but also the games will generally be snubbed by most console owners. There is no doubt a limited amount of console owners who actually purchase games off of this store, and when they could be playing these high-budget games available at retail you have to question why they would bother with the download stores.

On top of this all your typical big name companies are given the opportunity to release their old games on the store in new ways, such as adding online play or HD-support. Again, this further makes it more difficult for any small development team to be recognized.

 

I’m going to quickly address what may be seen as a saving grace to these smaller development teams, and that is the Nintendo Wii. It was heavily criticized for going against the push for HD graphics, and it’s lack-luster hardware, but what you may not know is that the console is a gold mine for anyone looking to develop for it. Games for the Wii on average cost under a fifth of the cost for a multiplatform 360 / PS3 title, and the Hardware Nintendo used is far less complex to develop a game for. We’re already seeing many of the low-key development teams pledge their allegiance with the Wii, and plenty of the newly announced games are without a doubt completely unique and ground-breaking projects I don’t think anyone would have risked developing for a cost of $25 million +. Nintendo have created a platform which allows companies to take risks while experimenting with completely unique hardware (The Wii Remote), whereas both Sony and Microsoft have left developers having to be extra cautious.

 

I would just like to express that these are my worries, and some of you may be happy with the way both the PS3 and 360 are taking the industry. I thank you for reading and hope that for the discussion preceding this article that we can try to keep things mature. Fan boy flame wars are not welcome and please try to think twice before slating someone else’s opinion or giving us your own.

[Zygo Ape]

Despite the rest of the article which was quite well founded. I think the lack of innovation in the games is a little harsh and a bit rich coming from Wii owners who have got the likes of "Chicken Shoot" and "Brunswick Bowling" to look forward to....

 

Its the Developers Holding the Progression back, its nothing to do with the Consoles, they merely provide a stage upon which to perform

[Retro_Link]

Its the Developers Holding the Progression back, its nothing to do with the Consoles, they merely provide a stage upon which to perform

Yes and No. Developers can be blamed for cashing in too often and lacking imagination/innovation in their games, but ultimately it's the design of the console that is responsible for progression in the industry; the d-pad, analogue stick, wii-remote/motion sensing etc...

 

You could argue that the 360/PS3 are pushing the console industry forward in terms of online gaming, but whether that's ultimately the right way to progress (considering PC's are just as good) is another question and one that is being challenged by path the Wii is taking.

[Guest Jordan]

MS have done alot for the industry:

Created THE perfect traditional controller (bar the D Pad) on the 360

Online gaming standard

DLC on consoles

[jammy2211]

MS have done alot for the industry:

Created THE perfect traditional controller (bar the D Pad) on the 360

Online gaming standard

DLC on consoles

The thing is, what exactly out of that has been done before? Online Gaming / DLC was avaliable on the PC over 10 years ago, it's nothing new just they've now put it on a console. They've very much copied the philosophy of a PC and put it in a home entertainment system.

 

And I still think PlayStation controllers are better, but that's just preference. It's hardly innovation is it?

 

Despite the rest of the article which was quite well founded. I think the lack of innovation in the games is a little harsh and a bit rich coming from Wii owners who have got the likes of "Chicken Shoot" and "Brunswick Bowling" to look forward to....

 

Its the Developers Holding the Progression back, its nothing to do with the Consoles, they merely provide a stage upon which to perform

 

Yeah, the Wii is going to have crap, but that's inevitable.

 

And can you blame the developers when they're putting $25 million into one project on the X360 / PS3? That's simply too much money to risk on innovation that might not sell. The consoles have created an environment where companies can't risk anything new, as it could result in huge losses.

 

Except on the Wii, where developement costs are worth the risk, coupled with the Wii's controller, market and emphasis.

[The Bard]

Microsoft have done more for the industry since Nintendo did with the SNES in my opinion. Xbox live is pretty much the perfect online system, 360 has a colossal amount of awesome games.

 

I'd say that it's the Wii that's holding everything back, because everything except the controller is thoroughly unsatisfactory.

[immy]

I'd say that it's the Wii that's holding everything back, because everything except the controller is thoroughly unsatisfactory.

 

 

 

Pretty much what I think too

[Kav]

Microsoft have done more for the industry since Nintendo did with the SNES in my opinion...

 

I can't agree with this... Analogue stick... that alone is more than Xbox Live or any other feature Microsoft have brought to the console market!

 

I don't believe any of the companies are holding the industry back either, look at the industry, it's absolutely booming just now!

[The Bard]

That's not a bad point actually. XBL is still the best thing to happen to games in ages.

[Shino]

I can't agree with this... Analogue stick... that alone is more than Xbox Live or any other feature Microsoft have brought to the console market!

 

Correct.

 

I'd say that it's the Wii that's holding everything back

 

Also correct, not because of its hardware, but because it encourages the kind of games that don't need any effort to develop.

[The Bard]

Also correct, not because of its hardware, but because it encourages the kind of games that don't need any effort to develop.

 

Yeah, that's basically the other side of this argument.

 

With 360/ PS3, developing games requires a large amount of expenditure, so developers have to make sure their game is worth playing resulting in long amounts of time being spent to get everything perfect.

 

With Wii developers either rehash old titles, don't spend time on them or in the rare instance that they try something new, Nintendo dictate that it has to be geared more towards the casual market. Still, I'm confident we'll see some kick ass games soon enough.

[Mikey]

I can't agree with this... Analogue stick... that alone is more than Xbox Live or any other feature Microsoft have brought to the console market!

 

I don't believe any of the companies are holding the industry back either, look at the industry, it's absolutely booming just now!

 

Nintendo didn't invent the analog stick.

[AshMat]

The points that Bard, Jordan and Shino (well at least agreed with) all sum it up really.

[Maiky-NiSuTe]

as for technologically no they don't. as for games yes they most defenetly do together with EA that is. they look to mush in one age 12 to 22 and don't think of expanding this like Nintendo does. also they still don't get that you can have a great shooter without blood gore sex and violence. (fur fighters dreamcast)

 

although sony has done more than Microsoft on this field. (ICO, Buzzer, spyro etc etc) still they never seen the full potential like Nintendo does. and Nintendo doesnt seem to know to find a balance between console power or console playtime. they always go for play time.

[jammy2211]

 

Yeah, that's basically the other side of this argument.

 

With 360/ PS3, developing games requires a large amount of expenditure, so developers have to make sure their game is worth playing resulting in long amounts of time being spent to get everything perfect.

 

With Wii developers either rehash old titles, don't spend time on them or in the rare instance that they try something new, Nintendo dictate that it has to be geared more towards the casual market. Still, I'm confident we'll see some kick ass games soon enough.

 

Did you actually read what I posted?

 

These high developement costs mean companies can't dare make a game which hasn't been proven as a good seller. Companies won't risk trying out new genres, using the consoles amazing hardware to design something unique, because they can't afford to take that risk.

On top of this, the only companies who can develope for the consoles are the big ones, any small low-budget teams are simply shunned. That worries me most, as there could be a great team of innovative developers who simply can't make their dream game.

 

Wii has opened the window for big developers to risk their more creative and unproven projects (a la Zack and Wiki) while giving smaller low key developement teams a chance to release a game to a market where innovation can make a game more attractive then a big budget. I've spoken to alot of these developement teams and they all share the same philosphy and have pledged their 100% dedication to the Wii and DS.

 

Wii developers will pick up, the first wave of games have been ports and poo because the Wii took everyone by surprise. I know that some of the projects started after the Wii was sold out worldwide for 6 months are far more acceptable, and that Nintendo arn't 'dictating' anything.

[...]

Nintendo didn't invent the analog stick.

 

Nor did Xbox Live invent online gaming, the comparison is legitimate.

[Mikey]

Nor did Xbox Live invent online gaming, the comparison is legitimate.

 

No, it isn't. No one is claiming Microsoft invented online gaming, people were just saying that Xbox Live is just a great way for console gamers to play online with each other. People were implying that Nintendo invented the analog stick when they didn't.

[Hero-of-Time]

I dont think that Microsoft and PS3 are holding the industry back at all, they have just took a different route to Nintendo.

 

Like many have said before I think Microsoft deserves more credit for what they have done for the industry in the short years they have been around. Yes PC games have had online gaming for years but consoles havent and thats where Microsoft have made the biggest impact.

 

You just have to experience Live with some mates and you realize what a great feature it is. The 360 pad is, as Jordan said, near perfect and the whole Achievement thing in games is a great way to get more out of your games.

 

The PS3 I wont comment on as I have yet to pick one up but I think they have yet to make an indentity for themselves in this generation as the PS3 is basically a 360 but without the great online features.

 

Nintendo have done great to come back, they truely have but having owned a Wii since release day I have to say that I do prefer my traditional style of gaming, its just so much more relaxing and the Wii really does lack some "proper" games at the moment. The one thing I give credit to the Wii for is the VC, without this my Wii would have been gathering dust along time ago.

[Kav]

No, it isn't. No one is claiming Microsoft invented online gaming, people were just saying that Xbox Live is just a great way for console gamers to play online with each other. People were implying that Nintendo invented the analog stick when they didn't.

 

Nobody said Nintendo "invented" the analogue stick! I said they brought it into console gaming... nobody was implying anything of the sort!

[Dilli Gee]

If anything, it's the Wii that's holding the industry back. It's encouraging ports like no tomorrow, with little effort.

[Mikey]

Nobody said Nintendo "invented" the analogue stick! I said they brought it into console gaming... nobody was implying anything of the sort!

 

 

lol, man, same thing. They didn't introduce it to console gaming either. Consoles in the 70's had analog sticks.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_stick

[Gaijin von Snikbah]

Im sorry but I dont see how the Xbox360 or PS3 is changing anything from how it has always been.

[jammy2211]

Goddddddddd, people don't read my original post and any reply is based on nothing that I mentioned ^_^.

[Zechs Merquise]

No! All three consoles aim to advance the market, just in different directions. The Wii into the mainstream and none gamers, the 360 into the field of online games and hardcore PC like gaming, the PS3 into hi-tech home entertainment.

[...]

lol, man, same thing. They didn't introduce it to console gaming either. Consoles in the 70's had analog sticks.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_stick

 

Ok, but we can all agree that we are all controlling characters in 3D environments via analogue sticks thanks to the N64, not the Saturn, not the PS1, not the Xbox and not the VC 4000 either...

 

Just to summarize what happened:

 

1 - Online gaming wasn't invented by Xbox Live and nobody claimed it was; Analogue sticks weren't invented by Nintendo and nobody said they were.

 

2 - Bard said Microsoft did more to the industry than Nintendo did since the SNES, mainly reffering to Xbox Live.

 

3 - kav82 replied that the analogue stick was a bigger step towards modern gaming and Bard agreed.

 

4 - And it's not thanks to the VC 4000 that we control in 3D so precisely today.

 

Anyway, just to say that I agree with kav82's point, no hassle.