Jasper Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I dunno about that explanation. It's an interesting topic, I touched upon it a bit when I was doing my study into luck for my project this year. Apparently luckier people see the good in the bad, whereas unlucky people don't, even if it's the exact same turn of events. (i see somebody swiftly dealt justice to hobbizinio's post) There's even a simple (and low-priced) test to prove it. Go to a busstop and put a dollar, pound, euro, yen or any currency you use in your local third-world country on the bench or the ground. Wait untill somebody finds it. These people just had a positive experience. Now walk by and accidentally drop all the stuff you're carrying. People who found the coin will be willing to help you, seeing the benefit in helping other people. If you're lucky, youre happier and you will be nicer to other people. Okay, it doesn't really have much to do with this topic. But I'de say to everyone: try reading the Celestine Prophecy. it's a deep book, but it's very good and makes you look and experience the world in an entirely different way. A nicer way, actually. Not that everything in it is as correct, but it's good to give it a though anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I don't believe in fate. If fate's going to make something happen in the future then it's already set in stone, I can't do anything about it. That's bullshit. Nobody and nothing controls the future. If you believe in fate, what is it powered by? Magic? God? Doctor Who? Aliens? People who believe in fate don't like to look into it too deeply. The word faith is merely an abundance of ignorance and an absence of logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I don't believe in fate. If fate's going to make something happen in the future then it's already set in stone, I can't do anything about it. That's bullshit. Nobody and nothing controls the future. If you believe in fate, what is it powered by? Magic? God? Doctor Who? Aliens? People who believe in fate don't like to look into it too deeply. The word faith is merely an abundance of ignorance and an absence of logic. Hmm. So you say that's it's entirely in your hands? Your dad dies. It was neither your choice nor his. Here's the accepted theory: we are neither completly set-out neither are we entirely up to our own choice. We live in a conditioned fate. Many things happen wich are out of our control - they happen, they can be accidents, but we can see them as fate. If we don't control it, it's fate. On the other hand we have our own, personal, choices we can make that we believe (I don't actually, as I explained n the last page) are our own. We cannot control everything - it is semi-controlled.` Just to be controversial: look at the big picture. Maybe you were meant to say all this and is it a part of a genious setup to uncover the real thing by making us think about it. I know it's harder to take that everything (everything) is a layed out path to the future - but in the end, you only followed one path, not all the other 'possible' paths. It's the fog of fate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Just because something has a consequence doesn't mean that consequence is the reason why something happened. Most things have consequences, but that shouldn't be confused that the thing has a reason, as if some unknown concious force drives things to influence lives. Like Eenuh said, a reason is just a name for a consequence we give it in looking back, not something that was predetermined. The only force that drives our lives is coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Hmm. So you say that's it's entirely in your hands? Your dad dies. It was neither your choice nor his. Here's the accepted theory: we are neither completly set-out neither are we entirely up to our own choice. We live in a conditioned fate. Conditioned fate? I'm not talking about realism or natural order, but rather mystical, devine 'destiny'. Everyone is going to die. The sun will rise tomorrow. I will go to University later today. These things will happen, but that's not the same as fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Conditioned fate? I'm not talking about realism or natural order, but rather mystical, devine 'destiny'. Everyone is going to die. The sun will rise tomorrow. I will go to University later today. These things will happen, but that's not the same as fate. Those will happen in the future you predict right now, but a bus that runs you over will change all that. Is that 'just coincedence' or is that your fate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Is that 'just coincedence' or is that your fate? Why would it be predetermined in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 If you believe in fate, what is it powered by? Magic? God? Doctor Who? Aliens? Veronica Mars? Had to be said. Anyway. I don't believe in fate in any kind of biblical sense. I don't really know what I believe in. I just find the idea of EHFAR interesting (certainly more so than bodily functions which seem to be populating threads). Part of me wishes to believe that we have control but then when things start piling up its hard to believe it. Perhaps its just easier to believe in fate, pass the buck as so to speak. Things will happen and you have no control over them, so enjoy the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I believe entirely in action and consequence. A situation is how it is and there is an event that happens, causing another situational set up as a result. Some of these situations are within my control and many of them are not. Identifying which one's are and not make life a lot simpler. People can do anything they want to most of the time for example, they just have to take control of their own lives and MAKE it happen. But on the flip side you have to learn to accept when things are just out of your hand and no matter what you do you cant change that. I dont believe in any kind of spiritual plain or presence so fate/destiny are something that is all down to me. I see my destiny more like the word which it is linked to: destination. I have somewhere I wanna go and I need to get there myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 There's even a simple (and low-priced) test to prove it. Go to a busstop and put a dollar, pound, euro, yen or any currency you use in your local third-world country on the bench or the ground. Wait untill somebody finds it. These people just had a positive experience. Now walk by and accidentally drop all the stuff you're carrying. People who found the coin will be willing to help you, seeing the benefit in helping other people. If you're lucky, youre happier and you will be nicer to other people. Okay, it doesn't really have much to do with this topic. But I'de say to everyone: try reading the Celestine Prophecy. it's a deep book, but it's very good and makes you look and experience the world in an entirely different way. A nicer way, actually. Not that everything in it is as correct, but it's good to give it a though anyway. Interesting stuff, you read that from an actual study? If so, where? I'm still looking for inspiration for my project next year, and that seems pretty interesting. As for fate and destiny and what 'powers' it, I'd imagine the answer is itself. The issue with it is that, like God, it's a pretty hard thing to prove to exist. As someone said earlier, do you really have a choice or just believe you do? Once you've firmly made the choice you can't go back and change it, how do you know you weren't fated to make that choice? I'm sure you've all seen the matrix, so I won't go on about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Interesting stuff, you read that from an actual study? If so, where? I'm still looking for inspiration for my project next year, and that seems pretty interesting.As for fate and destiny and what 'powers' it, I'd imagine the answer is itself. The issue with it is that, like God, it's a pretty hard thing to prove to exist. As someone said earlier, do you really have a choice or just believe you do? Once you've firmly made the choice you can't go back and change it, how do you know you weren't fated to make that choice? I'm sure you've all seen the matrix, so I won't go on about that. Seen it on Belgium television's 'Hoe?Zo!' show, wich is a scientific show and they filmed the prove. And for those who believe in action/consequence - if we could predict every consequence that happens to any particle, we could exactly and accuratly predict the future and such you would believe in predestination. If everything is under the law of action/consequence, it would mean you could predict the future. Predestination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyellowbloke Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 And for those who believe in action/consequence - if we could predict every consequence that happens to any particle, we could exactly and accuratly predict the future and such you would believe in predestination. If everything is under the law of action/consequence, it would mean you could predict the future. Predestination. Aye, Chaos Theory I think pretty much says things along those lines, that within seemingly random events an order can be found. I think Spaced summed it up nicely: "Did you notice that everything that transpired in the three Star Wars movies can be attributed to the actions of one minor character, the gunner on the Star Destroyer at the beginning of the first film." "How?" "Because if he had hit the pod that R2D2 and C3PO were on they wouldn't have got to Tatooine and met Luke, who then wouldn't have met Ben, they wouldn't have met Han and Chewie, they wouldn't have rescued Leia. None of it would have happened." "Chaos Theory, the predictability of random events. The notion that reality as we know it, past present and future, is in fact a mathematically predictible pre-ordained system." "So somewhere out in the vastness of the universe is an equation for predicting the future?" "An equation so complex as to defy comprehension from even the most brilliant human mind, but an equation non the less." "Oh my god." "What?" "I think I've got some fucking jaffa cakes in my coat pocket!" A less fun way to explain it would be to say that a butterfly flapping its wings on one side of the Earth could cause a hurricane on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 "Chaos Theory, the predictability of random events. The notion that reality as we know it, past present and future, is in fact a mathematically predictible pre-ordained system."From what I understand there are some things at the basis of the universe that aren't, not by a mathematical equation, predictable. For example, the breakdown of atom nuclei in radioactive decay or the exact position of a quantum particle is not dependant on any physical quantity that can be calculated with, meaning the universe cannot be exactly predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Get the book "Black Swan" when it comes out on friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Get the book "Black Swan" when it comes out on friday. Thank you for your hefty explaintation of what it will be about. really helps if I want to spend that hard-earned 20 bucks. Euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Everything happens for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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