Posted January 29, 2007 If there was really a God...he wouldn't put us through this....end of. What if he creates us so he can get pleasure from watching us suffer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 What if he creates us so he can get pleasure from watching us suffer? Then he's not "God" per se is he? God by definition is an omnipotent omnietc, wholly benevolent being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 If I lock this thread, will I be 'healing' that suffering? Therefore, would I be God? Or would that make me Jesus? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 Then he's not "God" per se is he? God by definition is an omnipotent omnietc, wholly benevolent being. From the OED: "A superhuman person who is worshipped as having power over nature and the fortunes of mankind; a deity." Doesn't exclude an evil god. If I lock this thread, will I be 'healing' that suffering? Therefore, would I be God? Or would that make me Jesus? Some might consider you a messiah... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 That's the difference between you and I. Because you find it hard to explain something and have a hard time accepting things that don't have reasons, you try to explain them with religion. I've always experienced that as a sign of weakness as religion basically takes away the need and challenge for you to answer things you don't know. I think you're misusing the phrase "religion" here. I do not believe in any religion whatsoever. I may think there could be an afterlife or a Higher being or whatever, but not a "religion". Religion is a following of a faith, an absolute belief in something without truth, a named "organisation" of sorts that believes the same things as one another and has it all written down somewhere. I don't try to explain what I can't understand with religion. I simply seek a bit of comfort in wondering why it's inexplicable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 Heaven/Hell argument for me. Or really, just a Heaven. I don't see how a Hell is logical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 This thread had the potential to be a place of discussion about religeon, with well made arguments. These arguements would be backed up with facts or some type of substance. You should all know that jokes or witty remarks aren't really appropriate for a thread like this where too many people can get offended, reasonably or not. I wonder how long it will take for Godwin's Law to take effect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29, 2007 I think you'd be called an agnostic then? Guilty as charged Never claimed anything less herein. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 If I lock this thread, will I be 'healing' that suffering? Therefore, would I be God? Or would that make me Jesus? This thread needsa a martyr. (not me) :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 This thread had the potential to be a place of discussion about religeon, with well made arguments. These arguements would be backed up with facts or some type of substance. You should all know that jokes or witty remarks aren't really appropriate for a thread like this where too many people can get offended, reasonably or not. I wonder how long it will take for Godwin's Law to take effect. Hitler, Nazis...Ooops!:wink: Thought I would just get it out of the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 I keep wanting to add something to this thread, but I'm always too late and someone else has already said it! I think it's good that people are asking the questions, the questions are more important than the answer. Anyone who tells you they can explain everything is a liar. I don't see a conflict between evolution and Christianity. I believe in some of the ethics of Christianity, but not necessarily the religious side. Books are written by men. I'm agnostic, but I'm probably Theo-Curious. If there was an answer that people just 'knew' then this thread wouldn't exist. I was about to say that I believe in evolution, but 'Belief' isn't needed, really. Evolution is as real as fire. ^That there is an unconnected set of sentences which isn't illogical. Whoever was critcising someone else for spelling 'criticize' wrong should look it up in an English Dictionary (British Edition). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 god is the combined life force of everything in the universe and beyond. we are all insignificant but part of something "special"(?) Karma is the balance. god is in all of us what lies after death is beyond anybodys comprehention The human race is not ready to understand i dont care about grammer in forums Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 Isn't religion ignorance by definition anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 Heaven/Hell argument for me. Or really, just a Heaven. I don't see how a Hell is logical. You can't see how a place worse than Earth can exist; yet you can believe in some super happy place?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 oh my god... perhaps we are only people in a SIM played by a spotty fat teenager.. on the PS3!!!! well religion is ok.. as long as they keep it to them self.. don't come playing the missonary around my house Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 Im a Church of England Christian but dont practice it or go to church or anything. To be honest I dont care much for religion. It causes too many problems in this world. I am also a believer of things that can be explained and proved to me... ie Science, It's all about science In my opinion when we die there is nothing, just like before you are born. Nothing. I hope im wrong and I go off to heaven with 30 virgins..... oh wait thats islam right? All I know is that life is short so enjoy it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 Well I was told once by a mystical wise woman of the east that as we exist right now we are on something called the existential plane the were basics of existence where wars, conflict, suffering, pain and death exist. Once we die our souls raised to another plane, that which I can't remember. In this plane our astral forms exist in harmony, with a drive for knowlege, plagued however by our actions in our life. As we gain more knowlege we ascend to another plane and with that are content with another aspect of our life that caused pain and suffering so long ago. This continues until we reach the highest plain where we are completely free of guilt and are all knowlegeble, in essense god. From that point we can ascend once more when we wish to the existential plane, where we hope that our knowlege and stength will come with us and help us enjoy a great life. The old lady also said it granted all sorts of super powers and made you super cool before violating me in the closet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 ^That there is an unconnected set of sentences which isn't illogical. Yes, but it isn't an argument, which is what I was getting at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 true. Also, a probabilistic assessment of religion would lead you to the conclusion that you should, logically, believe in God. Basically, it's worth betting a tenner to win another tenner on the flip of a coin, right? So it's definitely worth betting a tenner to win another twenty, or thirty on the flip of a coin. It's about risk vs reward. Well, nobody is certain that God does not exist. Therefore there is some probability (higher than 0) that God exists. You are betting 80years (roughly) of servitude against finite odds, and the reward is infinite bliss for an infinite period. This is a much more sensible bet than betting your last penny on a coin toss to win 8 billion pounds. But statistics/probability is guff anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 true. Also, a probabilistic assessment of religion would lead you to the conclusion that you should, logically, believe in God. Basically, it's worth betting a tenner to win another tenner on the flip of a coin, right? So it's definitely worth betting a tenner to win another twenty, or thirty on the flip of a coin. It's about risk vs reward. Well, nobody is certain that God does not exist. Therefore there is some probability (higher than 0) that God exists. You are betting 80years (roughly) of servitude against finite odds, and the reward is infinite bliss for an infinite period. This is a much more sensible bet than betting your last penny on a coin toss to win 8 billion pounds. But statistics/probability is guff anyway. Only from a mathematician... :wink: I think that fails because people aren't happy to bet that there is a god. They want to be faithful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 I think I first read about that 'theory' in a discworld book. It says that all the gods took it in turns to fry the bloke who came up with the theory with thunderbolts for being a smart-arse. It does kind of make sense. Ish. In (albeit non-monotonic) logic, we could write: If there is a God, he'll be pissed off if I don't worship him. There could be a god. I should worship God. Of course, both of the propositions require a degree of belief, and God ain't a logician, he's geometer. (I promise that's the end of the God-maths- apart from this: "If god did play dice, he'd win"- Ian Stewart) [/math's geek] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 I think I first read about that 'theory' in a discworld book. It says that all the gods took it in turns to fry the bloke who came up with the theory with thunderbolts for being a smart-arse. It does kind of make sense. Ish. In (albeit non-monotonic) logic, we could write: If there is a God, he'll be pissed off if I don't worship him. There could be a god. I should worship God. Of course, both of the propositions require a degree of belief, and God ain't a logician, he's geometer. (I promise that's the end of the God-maths- apart from this: "If god did play dice, he'd win"- Ian Stewart) [/math's geek] Ian Stewart = win. Have you read Life's Other Secret? That God thing was originally known as Pascal's wager, but yes, it was in Discworld. You rephrased it in such a mathematical way that I didn't recognise it... :wink: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 A question: I mean this totally seriously, and in a non-piss-taking way: Why do you religious folk here abouts believe in your respective religions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30, 2007 Ian Stewart = win. Have you read Life's Other Secret? Noppers. Need to get back into some serious maths literature though, been reading a bit too much pop-sci and not enough proper maths. I'm much more interested in pschology at the moment though, and it's easier to understand! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31, 2007 Noppers. Need to get back into some serious maths literature though, been reading a bit too much pop-sci and not enough proper maths. I'm much more interested in pschology at the moment though, and it's easier to understand! Life's Other Secret is more about biology than maths... it's about how underlying physical laws control life more than we think. Stewart thinks that in the future, a form of maths will do for biology what calculus did for physics. I wish it were so, but I find it highly unlikely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
