Grazza

I prefer that idea to banishing the cel-shaded games to handheld, as I think the Wind Waker style deserves the full power of a console. Of course, it'd need a new development team dedicated to the "Wind Waker" games. I don't think it should have a new hero though. He could just get older and not need his "Hero of Time" abilities. I would certainly be in favour of shortening the dungeons in this theoretical series, as they actually took me out of my immersion a little bit (in Wind Waker) and reminded me it was a game. Maybe it's just me, but full-length dungeons seem a bit old-fashioned now when you could have much more action in the overworld. But, hand on heart, I think Nintendo should make all their games like playable cartoons, whether that means cel-shading or something newer and better. We could have much better colours and contrast in future, and with an adult Link too. I think it'd be the best of both worlds. Yes, I know what you mean. It's the main sword, yet not always the strongest! It does have more "evil banishing" power than the others, but still... I thought Twilight Princess got it right, as did Wind Waker the way you powered it up in stages. I also like the way the shield goes: Wooden, Hylian, Mirror Shield in most games. If they ever put MotionPlus in the Nunchuk (maybe for Wii 2), we could control the shield again with a gyroscope.

I know I'm very late, but thank you, King V. Ah, the room full of mirrors you had to find, position and bounce light off... Most enjoyable puzzle I've ever seen in any game.

Tingle was fantastic! For me, the moment Tingle appeared in Wind Waker was one of the best moments in gaming. Sounds odd, I know, but not long after I'd completed Majora's Mask, I thought "That's it, I'm bored with gaming" and sold my Saturn, N64 and Dreamcast. Eventually I became aware that there was a new Nintendo console and a new Zelda game, so I knew I had to get them. Wind Waker was so fresh and new, and I'd forgotten the details of the older Zelda games anyway. I'd certainly completely forgotten about Tingle. Anyway, the moment I saw Tingle I remembered him from Majora's Mask, and realised that the design team had recreated all the magic in a completely different setting. I metaphorically tipped my hat to them for achieving something I'd never seen in gaming before. I'm indifferent to the character outside of Zelda, but he works really well in the context of a Zelda adventure. He grounds it; sets the right tone...

Yes, thanks Hero-of-Time. That's what I like to hear! I must admit, I have been paying this game more attention recently, upgrading it from "quite a laugh" to "looks very good"! I'm very impressed with the artistry - it's looks gorgeous! It clearly was a labour of love. The graphics are so good I'd like to see Metroid, Donkey Kong and even Mario done in this style.

Yeah, the Nintendo event will be 1st- or 2nd-party games. I just got confused about ONM saying games from "big developers" are on the way. I wouldn't have thought they meant Nintendo. Factor 5 and Amusement Vision doing Kid Icarus and F-Zero respectively would certainly fit the bill, I think. Not Capcom, I admit, although I know it'd be nice if they did another Zelda: Four Swords (I think that development team has been let go, more's the pity). Paper Mario 3 by Intelligent Systems could be on the cards, and I still say whoever did Star Fox Command had exactly the right idea for that particular series. Out of interest, when would everyone like to see the next real Zelda? I think anything later than December 2010 would be too late. In which case, I really wouldn't mind seeing something now, or at least by E3 2009.

"Big developers"? Sounds like it could well be Factor 5 with Kid Icarus, and I know a lot of us would like Sega (Amusement Vision) to do another F-Zero. I think it's more likely, though, to be ports of Capcom games like SFIV and RE5.

Yeah, why do they always say that? It's my understanding that orchestral music can't change "on the fly" like MIDI can. I'd rather have dynamic music than something that has to load all the time.

I would like to see Gannondorf (and especially Ganon) rendered much more boldly than that, with stronger colours and stronger lines/contrast. Basically, really cartoony like Space Ace or Mario Galaxy. For some reason, I think a giant pig-man would suit it more than a humanoid! Imagine a really simple, bold opening where Ganon swoops down and kidnaps Zelda, then flies off in his flying saucer! That's it, game begins! But hey, it's purely personal taste.

True. I didn't mean I wanted them to help the PS3, just that they could count on people making sure they had whatever console DQIX was released on (maybe I'm wrong). But yes, the DS has a huge userbase, and I do like playing on mine.

Very true. It wasn't generic, just dangerously close to generic in one or two parts. It's definitely better than rival adventure games last generation like Beyond Good & Evil, Starfox Adventures and Okami. I mean, just riding on fields fighting the boar-riders is above most games! That's true. I think the music is one of the underrated things about the game. I'm always humming it! Ballad of the Wind Fish from Link's Awakening. Beautiful. Actually, you're right, it should be medium. I just don't mind personally if they're on the easy side in combat (like WW or TP). I've got all 120 Shines. Whee! You've got a very good point there. Take Phantom Hourglass. I thought the touchscreen controls worked well for the weapons, but not movement. I completed it twice, so I was fine with it, but it wasn't an actual improvement. It worked in terms of fitting the game to the DS, but it didn't actually improve the series. See, as much as I like your posts, I do actually disagree with that somewhat. Neither Majora's Mask nor Wind Waker were the traditional "Hyrule adventure", but I thought they got the feeling just right. For me, Zelda is about a feeling of magic, and when the designers are on form, they can pull it off in different settings. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind a sci-fi Zelda. Think "Space Ace" (yes, I know it's a terrible game!) more than "Metroid". I think it would be a great achievement for the designers to prove they can recreate the same atmosphere and gameplay in space (a bit like Mario Galaxy).

I didn't want to criticise this game any more, but there have been some excellent points: Foresight. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. When I first saw the 2004 trailer, I thought it would be a side-quest of some type (like Majora's Mask). I was very surprised when it turned out it would be a full "Hyrule" adventure. Like I say, I think the best model for any one console is 1 main Zelda + 1 spin-off/side-quest game using the same engine. If TP had been about exploring a strange land with different villains and locations, it would have had more identity of its own. I wouldn't have minded a much shorter game if they had got the atmosphere and gameplay just right. Indeed. One thing I thought was that it felt a bit too much like an RPG and not a fluid adventure game. Recently I played Final Fantasy XII and was surprised how similar the tone and atmosphere was to Twilight Princess. Zelda should be so good that no one can match it! I thought not being able to see the detail on the characters in Castle Town was just like FFXII (and many other RPGs). This is one of those odd things that I suspect might have been due to the delay/Wii version. If (and I stress if) they took out the Mirror Shield and other items it would be awkward for the Wii to do, it's easy to imagine them redesigning other items and dungeons. I'd forgotten about that too, but you're right. It's an awfully strange thing thing to take out of the game, especially so late in the development (remember, it was still in some of the promotional screenshots!) People say the game lacked "magic". Well, a lot of it could literally be due to the lack of a magic bar! It's just one of many things that make me suspicious about the game. Exactly. It's all this physics-based improvisation that sets Zelda apart from an RPG. Shareholders. You've hit the nail on the head again. It seems to me that shareholders are lessening many forms of entertainment, because they only want a quick return and don't actually understand what makes a product good or why the fans like them. I honestly would have taken TP as it came, but all this delay/Wii version business certainly made me suspicious about the whole thing. Anyway, onto difficulty... I'm all in favour of Nintendo making games easier and more accessible, as long as there is enough challenge for other gamers. Besides, Twilight Princess may have had easy combat, but the puzzles were as difficult as ever, don't you think? The Mario games have it just right: moderately easy to complete the game, but you need superhuman reflexes to get all the stars! Super Mario World is my favourite and it's one of the easiest. Now, quite honestly, I thought Mario 64 and Sunshine were too difficult for the average "casual" gamer to get through. Not me, but I don't see why little kids should get frustrated trying to play them. I know people who gave Mario Sunshine a good go, but just couldn't get very far at all. I'd be in favour of all Mario and Zelda games being easy to complete, with optional medium and difficult challenges. Mario has the hub world, but this could be applied to Zelda by having an easy main adventure, but optional bosses and "100 levels" challenges. I thought the desert challenge in TP was not bad at all. At the end of the day, it's never going to be Metroid Prime (thankfully!)

The Saturn was one of the consoles I was fondest of. It specialised in sprites, but was no slouch with polygons either. The two I most strongly recommend are Guardian Heroes, a scrolling beat-em-up with split paths and levelling-up; and Story of Thor 2, which is like Zelda and very underrated. Both had beautiful sprite-scaling. I also really liked Bust-a-Move 2, Bubble Bobble Collection (or whatever it was called) and Sega Ages (which had great conversions of OutRun, Space Harrier and Afterburner). Two good exclusives were Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Panzer Dragoon Saga, the latter an RPG. It featured dragon battles which were similar to the ship battles in Skies of Arcadia. I wouldn't pay silly money for it though, if I were you. Then there were the great coin-op conversions like Virtua Fighter 1+2, Virtua Cop 1+2, Sega Rally, Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Marvel Super Heroes. I recommend these less because you can now get Virtua Fighter 5 on the current-gen consoles, as well as equivalents of the others.

Isn't it odd that Dragon Quest IX is a DS exclusive? It's basically a portable N64, so that's one generation back from the last game (which was PS2) and two generations back from what it could be. I know it has to be released on a machine that has made it big in Japan, but surely if Dragon Quest is Japan's No.1 series, people would buy PS3s just to play it? I looked on the back of the box of the Wii spin-off game, and it looked like the monsters had been graphically improved from Dragon Quest VIII on the PS2. Now they have to go backwards. Just a thought. I'm looking forward to it anyway.

I've got a feeling a MotionPlus-enabled Punch Out would be the moment any remaining sceptics (myself included) are convinced motion controls really are a giant step forwards. Other than that, I'd really like to see Zelda and Kid Icarus - just something done in the colourful Nintendo style that proves motion controls really can improve traditional games. I really want to be convinced!

Ah, sorry, I forgot about that. Yes, the "Four Links" is one of those things that didn't seem to fit into that game very well, although I loved Four Swords Adventures on the GC. I must have been lucky, because it's irritating when you can't beat a final boss. My personal nemesis is the Metroid Prime! I will admit that if the fans wanted a longer, more epic game, then they did get that. Speaking as someone who loves the atmosphere and style of both Wind Waker and the N64 games, I didn't take part in the criticism of WW. What I do think though, is that the 2004 trailer depicts the game people really wanted. Dare I say it, I think this game started to go off the rails as early as May 2005, its 3rd major showing and when it became known as Twilight Princess. I'd go as far to say that the wolf, twilight and even Midna detracted from the original vision (or at least what it had seemed like). In my opinion, the 2004 trailer depicts a simple game, heavy on atmosphere. Link is a swordfighting hero travelling on horseback on vast plains, fighting boar-riding enemies. Most of that was in the game, of course, it's just that there was too much tedium between the "wow" moments. It took me 54 hours to finish the first time (28 the second time), which I thought was too long, so I can't exactly say I wanted more sidequests. So yes, Eiji Aonuma may have wanted more time to finish "Twilight Princess", but I'd go as far as saying too much detail was added early on - the very detail that made it "Twilight Princess". I really think they bit off more than they could chew, and therefore there was too much to finish off. But - this is important - I would never criticise Eiji Aonuma or the Zelda team for trying something new. It's just my observation of the game, that's all. The only thing that actually annoyed me was the dual-release stuff, but I've said enough about that, and it certainly wasn't the Zelda Team's fault. I really think the next game should focus on combat and exploration - be adrenaline-pumping like Shadow of the Colossus.

I agree with Sheikah's "lite" comment, as Minish Cap's graphics felt like they were poor versions of characters designed and perfectly realised in Wind Waker. The GameCube is two generations ahead of the SNES/GBA, so it just didn't work for me. It would have been great with Link to the Past graphics, but still, it just wasn't one of my favourite Zeldas in general. EevilMurray, Vaati's final form did take me two or three attempts, but if you get plenty of hearts, potions and the right technique from a good FAQ (I can't remember much about it, personally), it's not too bad.

Yes, Minish Cap is a very odd game - a 7/10, I think. Four Swords Adventures (GameCube), on the other hand, is a lovely game and shows how technology can best update the 2D Zelda.

For me, it's purely the quality of the exclusives plus the ability to have decent ports of the multi-format games.

You're right, it was one year too late for the GameCube and one year too early for Wii. There was nothing in the Wii version the GameCube couldn't do and vice versa. That said, I'd have been furious if it had been delayed even longer! I really think a "raw" 2005 release would have been best. We could all have enjoyed the motion controls when Zelda Wii came along later. I also disagree with this idea that people don't appreciate the current Zelda until the next one comes along. OK, I did think people were way too harsh on Wind Waker (and Mario Sunshine, for that matter), but that's different tastes for you. I can honestly say I loved LttP, Oot, MM and WW at the time of release and TP was the first one I didn't think was better than the last. It was still very good though! It reintroduced bomb-arrows and introduced aquatic bombs, different mounts, horseback fighting and the ability to swing your sword whilst running (a huge improvement). All great things that shouldn't be forgotten for later instalments. I also loved the music and atmosphere of Lake Hylia, Hyrule Field, the "calm" music after the bosses and the way the boss music changed to something really dramatic when it was time to strike with your sword (thanks to MIDI, if I'm not mistaken). I strongly disagreed with reviews such as IGN's that the game needed voice acting or orchestral music. What we need for the next Zelda is immediacy, fluidity and immersion!

No, and I don't care if it's a game that is designed and released for one console. If I recally correctly, the issue of the pacing is in the "Iwata Asks" interviews. Yes, it matters. It's the principle. The fact is that with a dual-release, we got a game that was perfect neither for Wii nor GameCube. The removal of the shield control could have led to the removal of all sorts of other things. Given the conspicuous gap, I'd be surprised if the Mirror Shield hadn't been taken out. As for the pacing, it made a huge difference in terms of how fast it was to get into the game. Compare it to the immediacy of Link to the Past, for instance. Zelda fans will have persevered; others may have been given a bad impression and given up. There's also the fact the Wii has no C-stick. With this in mind, all areas had to be designed assuming the player had no control over the camera. Therefore, we get forced overhead views like in Castle Town. None of these things would matter if it had only come out on GameCube and the designers had genuinely thought it would improve the game. The problem is that the Wii lessened what could have been a better game.

That's a logical thing to say, but I still disagree. In my view, it's their job to keep the best aspects but improve in the areas they genuinely think they can. To me, they consistently improved the formula from LttP to WW. Twilight Princess even had a number of improvements to add to the overall formula. Good for EDGE. I'll have to read that. Yes, I don't know why they boasted about Miyamoto upturning the teatable so much considering Twilight Princess wasn't so great. I honestly can't decide whether Eiji Aonuma would have made a better game if left to his own devices or Miyamoto genuinely improved what would have turned out to be an even more controversial game. Absolutely. They have stiff competition from Fable 2, the new Prince of Persia and the next Team ICO game, which all have the advantage of being on hardware that is one generation ahead. To be fair, the DS and Wii will probably both remain popular for as long as each other. It's a different approach and might not actually go out of fashion. So, I would disagree that Nintendo themselves are in any danger, but it remains to be seen if the quality of their games is. They still make good games, but I haven't been bowled over by anything of their own on either DS or Wii. ... There are a few other things I wanted to say about Zelda Wii... Twilight Princess had fantastic graphics, but you were rarely close enough to the action to appreciate them. I initially thought they had downgraded the graphics, but on the odd occasion when the camera would get close enough, I realised how good the "Link" character model was (eg. in Agatha's house or climbing up from the basement of the circular house in Kakariko). The detail on the shield was great! With this in mind, I wouldn't mind an over-the-shoulder view, as long as the shield was still fully visible. It could change to 1st-person for aiming as usual, and maybe even traditional 3rd-person when you're riding mounts etc. Regarding voice acting, if they do it, I hope they leave the Japanese voices on there like Team ICO's games. I've seen so many games ruined by English-language voiceovers! The Japanese make the game, so they should set the tone. Also, we need a massive/infinite wallet like Phantom Hourglass. No more putting rupees back!

Yeah, exactly. I'm a dope for not giving Fable more of a chance! I got the Xbox and four games (including Fable) for £40. I tried it a few times, but I didn't like the graphics, camera controls or voice acting. I was far too impatient with it, but I'm interested in Fable 2. Good way of putting it.

I honestly don't think the problem is hype. Twilight Princess was an overworked painting rather than being a simple game with a great atmosphere. I think the reviews that scored it between 8.8 and 9.2 were right. Anyway, who hyped it? I seem to remember Nintendo whipping up a frenzy about it since 2004! But like I say, hype's not to blame. It was just about 5-10% less good than one expects from a console Zelda, that's all. My first Zelda certainly isn't my favourite, as it was Link to the Past and (as good as it was) I enjoyed most of the subsequent ones more.

Let's face it, it will be an uphill struggle, but Eiji Aonuma is a genius and if he has an artistic vision and he's allowed to carry it out, it could well be the best Zelda yet. Regarding MotionPlus, I'm all for it (assuming motion control is here to stay, that is). I'm assuming Wii Sports and Nintendo's other games so far are a good indication of what the existing motion control can do and, to me, it seems like it can only understand sharp, crude movements. The example of placing a stick is a good one, because I don't think the current controls can let you manipulate something in 3D space so carefully. Plus, it'd only be like having the RAM pak included in Majora's Mask. Apart from artistic vision, one of the things that makes an enjoyable game is how freely you can move around the overworld. It's the little things like being able to switch between 1st- and 3rd-person whenever you like (eg. to appreciate the detail on a ceiling), being able to manipulate the camera, minimal loading times and feeling that the world is fully modelled in 3D, with no 2D backgrounds. I'm currently playing Dragon Quest VIII on PS2 and the design of the game is a joy to behold. The towns and villages just keep getting better and better. It's not about having too many nooks and crannies; it's just about pleasing design. The best one so far, Argonia, has a very wide path down the middle (due to a river), houses lining the left and right walls (but very far apart) and a large castle at the back. You can explore the castle and get views of the town as it really is. And just as a run around Castle Town can highlight many of the problems of Twilight Princess, a trip to Windfall Island shows what Wind Waker got so right. It does seem to me Nintendo is trying to simplify games too much in order to take choice away from the gamer. I'm all for streamlining, but not in terms of things like camera controls and 1st-/3rd-person views. I'm sure they just mean to make their games more accessible, but it does lessen them somewhat, I think. PS - As for whether we really need a new Zelda yet or they should do a "Metroid Prime", I'm not desperate for one immediately, but I think it would be a shame if there was never one purely designed for the Wii. One per console is enough, but I think there's a danger of companies forgetting how to make their franchises if they don't do one per generation. One main game + one spin-off (using the same engine) is probably the best model, like Ocarina and Majora.

Semi-bump. I think the best games allow you to explore without making you feel compelled to do too many sidequests. Take Okami. I really felt I needed to "fill in" as many bits as possible, thus it felt a bit like a jigsaw puzzle. With Final Fantasy XII, you could get stuck exploring bits of map without knowing if you were taking a detour or not. Onto the ones that got it just right... Shadow of the Colossus has a massive world which can be explored at any time, yet you are always focused on the next colossus. Dragon Quest VIII, which I'm playing now, has a set path to follow. You can detour if you like, but there's no particular reason to. You can always find something or other if you really want to, but it doesn't get in the way. The Zelda games generally get this right too. You feel you can easily complete the game doing the basics and anything else you fancy, then go back and explore it fully.