Grazza

I think the Wii's weak rumble and the 3DS's (understandable) lack of it have made people forget how important it is! It's great to hold an official GameCube pad in your hands, with the rumble helping you locate secrets in Ocarina of Time, or just generally making a game more immersive. It's one reason (perhaps the only one), I can't quite consider OOT 3D the definitive version. Another point is that I doubt the Wii U GamePad will have as strong rumble as the GameCube, as it's sort of like a handheld (at least in my mind).

Yeah, I just completed the original Zelda as well. I'm trying to make my way through the NES games I got with the Ambassador scheme, although to be honest, I don't know quite why. To me, NES games in general are massively outdated, especially when you compare them to how good the SNES sequels are (Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Link to the Past). The jump from NES to SNES is probably one of the biggest ever in terms of ease-of-play and accessibility. To be honest (and I'm not saying this to be controversial), I don't think any NES games are good enough to charge money for nowadays, but they were a nice bonus. As I've said in other threads, the fact this is on the 3DS Virtual Console would be a terrible reason not to make a 3D Classics version or to put Zero Mission on there (if, in fact, it does have anything to do with it).

Thanks to the 3DS and the save state feature, I have just completed the original Metroid! Certainly a gruelling, arduous experience! Two things surprised me: Firstly, although it is a challenge to play, there aren't any particularly difficult moments, as such. The bosses in particular were surprising. I was expecting them to be big, difficult and intimidating, but the opposite was true. Kraid is not easy, but is the standard "Learn the technique, easy when you know how" kind of boss. He's also tiny! Ridley is also tiny, and a pushover! Mother Brain is about what you'd expect (thankfully the force fields stay destroyed, even if you fail). Basically, you will find far more frustrating bosses in Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and many/all of the others. But that's not to say the game is easy: not at all. If you fail at any part, you have to spend ages restoring your health and missiles. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of my play time was spent doing this. The second thing that surprised me was how many power-ups were missing. I suppose I assumed Metroid had been fully-formed since the beginning, but this is not the case. Things not in this game include Super Missiles, Plasma Beam, Power Bombs, Bomb Jump, Wall Jump, Speed Boost, Space Jump, any suit better than Varia, Save Rooms (or Save Points), diagonal aiming, downward aiming... the list goes on. No wonder Super Metroid made such an impression, as it is the first game to have most of these. So, overall, I'm glad I played it. I always loved Zero Mission, but playing the NES original has made me realise just how good that remake really is. It provides everything important from the original, yet to modern, luxurious standard! Have you completed Metroid? What are your thoughts on it?

That's interesting, Dannyboy. I was cautious about Apollo Justice for the same reason, but I thought it fitted into the series perfectly. I would be happy to consider it Ace Attorney 4, or even "Phoenix Wright 4".

I'm sorry, I can only think of four that I'm fond enough of to make the list (or I just thought they were very good). I should point out that Twilight Princess would easily be amongst them, but I played the GameCube version: 1. Metroid: Other M Fun, friendly and familiar. It said proudly "This is Metroid". Other M reintroduced the idea that Samus should be fast and agile. Speed Boost, Wall Jump and Space Jump controlled just as tightly as the 2D games (if not more so). The post-game exploring and boss made it even better. 2. Super Mario Galaxy 2 The Mario Galaxy games in general are the most-polished on the Wii. To be frank, I'd have more fondness for this game if not for the post-game content, which seemed designed to be frustrating. When I think of this game, I tend to think "Ugh! Star 242..." But for the purpose of this poll, I remember how good the first 120 Stars were. Yoshi controlled surprisingly well and, for me, the giant slide in Tall Trunk Galaxy surpassed anything in the first game. 3. Super Mario Galaxy Probably the best and least flawed all-round game for Wii (but it is not my favourite). Like Galaxy 2, I didn't much like the post-game, but I can't take away from the top notch graphics (especially the textures), music and sheer variety. The tone deserves special mention, as they managed to improve the look of Mario as much as they could for Wii, without making it seem too different. Everything seemed just right. 4. Metroid Prime 3 After playing Prime 1 + 2, I was in the mood for more. Whilst it took me a long time to get used to the pointing and motion controls, Metroid Prime 3 provided a very traditional game experience. The Nova Beam might just be the best laser in the series.

Well, I hope Larry Butz is in it - he's my favourite. "When something smells..."

Apparently we'll be seeing the Wii U version at Tokyo Game Show: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/09/dragon_quest_x_wii_u_details_confirmed_for_tokyo_game_show I must admit, I'm very curious to see how improved the visuals are.

I understand that. I'm not asking for Virtual Console games to run any different to how they did at the time (although I do think we should get the 60hz versions). I just wanted to make sure it was the "NES" straining rather than my 3DS (which might seem naive, but there you go). I think you might be right, but (assuming they put the GBA on the Virtual Console) does anyone else think that would be a terrible reason not to make Zero Mission available? I'd rather they removed the NES game from Zero Mission (as long as they made it clear), or just accepted they might lose some sales from the NES version. It's too good a game not to make available! The handheld Virtual Console should prioritise the handheld formats, in my opinion. It's nice to have the NES on there, but it should be just a bonus.

Woohoo, brilliant, I was waiting for that! Didn't want to start it before it got the update. On a related note, I finished Legend of Zelda last night (for the 2nd time - 1st time was on the GameCube Collectors' Disc). It was much more enjoyable with the save states, but wow, that is still one difficult game! All those bloomin' Wizzrobes in the final dungeon make it hard to just explore! I've now started Metroid, which is the only Metroid game I've not completed. I find it so much more inaccessible than the others but, again, the save states are extremely useful. You don't need to use the passwords it gives you, although it can still be slow to get your health back up to maximum. The trouble with this game is that you can make so many failed attempts to find anything, that you might give up. However, I don't mind admitting I just look at a map on GameFAQs - it makes it much more enjoyable for me. Once you've got the High Jump, Ice Beam and (hopefully) Varia Suit it allows you to explore more on your own. Also, you soon get used to the NES graphics and it's just as immersive as the others. On a side note, both games have extreme slowdown. Is this because the emulation "thinks" it is running on an NES? It's not a big problem, but if the fact that these three games (Legend of Zelda, Zelda II, Metroid) are already on the Virtual Console is the reason they are not getting "3D Classics" remakes, that is rather unfortunate.

Yeah, it was definitely a valid question. I'm not saying it'll be a bad game for it (in fact, I think it looks very good indeed), but it's a legitimate issue. I mean, "level selects" are something Nintendo is introducing into most of its games in some capacity - Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy 2. You could even say it affected Skyward Sword. There's no doubt in my mind that they help make games more accessible, but on the other hand RPGs are about exploring, so you've got to have that, ideally in a fully-linked world. I was daydreaming the other day... What if Nintendo made "New Legend of Zelda" or "New Metroid" in order to replicate the success of New Super Mario Bros? With Zelda, you could have as solid overworlds as usual but, once you'd gained access to a dungeon, it could appear on a level select screen. In other words, it'd be as free as usual, but you'd be able to start from any area of the map you'd actually found. Of course, this is not that much different from a warp (which they seem to be eliminating, ironically!) Anyway, as I say, it was just a daydream. I believe so, yes. I've got it on the Virtual Console so I'm tempted to fire up my Wii and make sure, although it seems like a lot of effort. Is it bad that turning on a console seems such a chore to me? It does though, I'm remembering it clearly now. Not that I like the game much, to be honest.

I'm all for it as long as it doesn't affect how the game is built up. If it's just a shortcut, fine. If it means the areas aren't linked up properly, then that's bad.

Well, I chuckled through most of that. Not bad, but too dark for my liking. Then again, if that girl is the new companion (which I didn't realise), maybe it's not as dark as I thought. I didn't think it was a patch on Russell T Davies' light-hearted series openers like Smith & Jones or Partners in Crime, but there you go. Times change.

I'm sure RedShell did it for fun. He didn't expect Penelope Cruz to pop out of the 3DS and do a striptease! Or did you, RedShell...?

OK, to be honest I have not bought Mario Kart 7 or Kid Icarus yet. The former seems good when I play it in GAME, but I've disliked every single Mario Kart game ever and part of me knows it'd be the same if I actually bought this one. Once I started losing races in the last second because someone shrunk me or threw a shell at me or something. Kid Icarus looks more appealing but I'm still sceptical about the controls, especially as I'd be playing it on a 3DS XL, so couldn't even use the stand if I had problems. I do have more mileage to get out of my old games though and I am going to buy more eShop games (DSi Ware and Virtual Console - many of the new eShop games are too puzzle- or rhythm-heavy for my liking). It's not really about being bored. After all, we don't need to be playing a game all the time. It's more about not having something exceptional to look forward to, combined with the nagging doubt that Nintendo might not be behind this handheld as much as we'd like at this point. As others have said, lack of localisations is the real issue. Etrian Odyssey IV appeals to me more than any of the other games - I can't believe something of that quality would not get localised - and Animal Crossing will be finished this year, it's just that we won't have it in Europe. Localised games would make all the difference.

Thought the first two were really funny!

I'm interested in Paper Mario and Power of Illusion, but I agree it is pretty uninspiring. The real disappointment is the localisation delay for Animal Crossing. I don't mind waiting for Luigi's Mansion 2, but I get the feeling we'll really miss out by not getting Animal Crossing this year. Then there are all the Japanese games - Code of Princess, Etrian Odyssey IV, Dragon Quest Monsters, Rocket Slime 3 - I'm sure a few of those could have been localised, even if they were download-only. Other than that, the 3DS will have been out for approx 20 months. Couldn't they have knocked up some more eShop games? A new 2D Metroid or Zelda would make all the difference. Overall, I still love the 3DS but it's not turning out how I imagined. At this rate, it'll only have about three "waves" of software until it's time for the next handheld.

I'm not surprised! I loved that bit too. The appeal of the duo in general is their music (just them on stage with their guitars works well), but Murray fleshes the sitcom out so much.

I love how you can buy bridges to cross the streams! The music is very relaxing too. This is the 3DS game I'm most looking forward to - out of the ones I'm sure will be localised, that is.

I agree, but LttP has been suggested because it might work well in stereoscopic 3D, if you're into that (which I'm not particularly, but any reason to bring us LttP is alright by me). There are also two small ways I think it could possibly be optimised for the 3DS: - Full 60fps without slowdown I'm unaware of LttP's framerate but Zelda games are usually 30fps... here might be an opportunity to improve it. I'd also be surprised if the SNES original didn't have any slowdown... again, it might be possible to eliminate that. Overall, we could have something that runs much better than the 50hz PAL SNES cartridge. - High-res widescreen The SNES game was 4:3, the GBA version was approx 14:9, but low-res. A 3D Classics version could fit the 3DS's 16:9 screen, and be higher-res than the GBA port too. Neither are massive, but both would welcome, and as I say, I agree with your suggestions of Metroid and Zelda II as well. Good points. Frankly, I'm surprised they put console games on the 3DS at all. Not that I'm complaining, but I always envisioned the 3DS Virtual Console to specialise in the handhelds, and so it was a surprise for me to see the NES on there before the GBA (or even to see the NES at all).

I'm in a real Zelda mood at the moment (after playing Minish Cap) so would like to see a "3D Classics" version of Link to the Past, a brand new 2D Zelda or even just the "Oracle" games on Virtual Console. Majora's Mask is a gem too. Other than that, there is so much that could be done with the eShop. Get GBA on there (I want to play Super Mario World)! Get SNES on there and unify our Wii/3DS accounts so I can play Super Metroid. Or just some brand new 2D games. As ever, though, I had better not get my hopes up.

So many years on, this is still my favourite song. Hilarious, with an irresistible rhythm: Love this too. Funky and soulful: They're so good, they really are.

I'm currently just trying to do all the post-game stuff. I want to fulfil all the criteria to get five stars before I "activate" the credits again. Am currently at 40,000 coins, by the way. I love it though; it's creeping higher and higher up my Activity List. No, I hadn't noticed that but I'll try it out, thanks. Does anyone know if there's any way to throw shells upwards?

All very interesting points, Fused King. Personally, I think that there will not be another revision of the 3DS. The XL is what Nintendo bring out when they need to boost sales. It seems to me that they had to use their trump card earlier than usual with the 3DS, hence the XL being released quite quickly. The reason I think there will not be a 3DSi is that it's hard to make people go back to smaller screens unless you offer higher resolution or better graphics - either of which would mean an entirely new handheld, in my opinion. How soon we get the next handheld and what it'll be like could be a thread of its own (in fact, I've wanted to make one for ages, but it'd probably be too soon! ) I wonder if Nintendo are still undecided and are seeing how much sales are boosted by the likes of New Super Mario Bros 2? Nintendo has released many of its important games for the system by now, and as much as I would like a Metroid, the only really expected game that they haven't mentioned (much) is a new Legend of Zelda. If they don't show a new handheld Zelda at next year's GDC, I will be quite suspicious. As for form factor, they'd need to stick with a dual screen design for backwards compatibility, but it could be argued higher resolutions (which I'm sure we all want) are making the case for a large, single-screen design. There is also the issue of whether they'd "waste" a new, higher resolution on a small screen, with "only" the benefit of a massive PPI. The 3DS used to have an impressive PPI, although it could always be improved, and that would still leave room for the "XL" model. I don't expect any new 3DS next year, but I wouldn't be too surprised at a new handheld in 2014 or 2015. Like I say, I think a lot of it depends on whether Nintendo (and other companies) think it's worth making more games. Will we get a Zelda? Will we get a Pokemon? Will we get a Dragon Quest? I hope so, but we'll see.

I haven't felt disappointment for a very long time - not since Twilight Princess on the GameCube, in fact, which is a tremendous experience in so many ways yet didn't match what I had built up in my head. Not since then I have I felt hype or expectation. It's hard to describe how excited some of us were for that game. Nintendo had the best console on the market (or near enough) and not too long ago had released Wind Waker, which many people considered the best game ever - or at the very least, a true 10/10 Zelda up there with Ocarina of Time. I'm not going to bash Twilight Princess (which isn't my nomination for this thread) because it's all been said. It didn't even need time or the "Zelda Cycle" for me to see its appeal. I loved my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs (although I'm not sure if I'd feel as positive if I only had the Wii version). TP is a beautiful game with atmospheric vistas, haunting music and a focused visual style. It also benefits from sticking more closely to the Zelda formula than more recent additions to the series. Who'd have thought it'd be the last game in the series (for now) to have a Day & Night Cycle or a traditional, linked, explorable overworld? To cut myself some slack, a lot of the disappointment was anger-based. The finished Twilight Princess was not what the 2004 video suggested, and Nintendo's decision to release it on two formats will always mean the GameCube version's controls were less than optimum - unlike Wind Waker or the playable demo of TP in 2005 which had shield control with the R-trigger... Anyway, if I'm not nominating Twilight Princess (and I realise the thread title has been changed from "Disappointing" to "Underwhelming"), then what am I? Well, nothing. No Wii game disappointed me. As I say, the type of hype I had in 2005 has never returned. So what of Skyward Sword? I could not call that disappointing because, to me, at no point in its development did it look particularly good. Nothing ever suggested it would trump earlier games. Yes, reviews overhyped it, but that's what they do - sometimes because they overvalue "innovation" (which Skyward Sword had bucketloads of), sometimes out of loyalty and perhaps sometimes for other reasons. All we can hope is that, one day, the Master Sword returns in a way that has us all united in its brilliance. I predict, apart from some series-best brilliance like Skyloft Bazaar, the "Zelda Cycle" is not going to repaint Skyward Sword in a different light. Until that day, all we can do is try to shake the nagging feeling that the genius has flown the nest.

When I was at primary school, one of my classmates said to me: "There's something wrong with you. You might not think so, but there is." I've never forgotten that. Even then, I thought he had a point. So what is it? I wouldn't be unhappy or even surprised to be somewhere in the "Autistic Spectrum", but the symptoms never quite seem to fit. I empathise with people and I understand emotions. Furthermore, I scored 17 on that test, which is pretty much as average as you can get! I do often feel as though I'm in my own world, as other people seem to react to it much differently to me. Half the time I entertain delusions about aliens and UFOs, but deep down I know I'm not being strictly "rational", and only doing it for entertainment. Somewhere under there is a normal brain. When I dream, hidden parts of my psyché are unlocked - I become romantic, daring and free - but it all disappears in my waking, conscious state. Maybe I'm just a weirdo! My parents call me "creative" or "imaginative", which I think are euphemisms for "mental"!