dan-likes-trees
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Posts posted by dan-likes-trees
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Pyre is.. a weird one. Enjoyed it, but the dialoague is pretty weird / lots of strange writing styles in the mix, and a lot of it isn;t voice acted. Strange going back to that compared to Hades which is a lot more relateable.
Enjoying seeing y'all writing up your progress as you go - the first 20 hours or so of this game, getting a little further each time, are so much fun
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On 4/5/2021 at 6:16 PM, bob said:On 4/5/2021 at 1:53 PM, LazyBoy said:I think I was at maybe 30 runs when I first beat it, but I'm now at 50 and haven't beat it since.
Trick with bone hydra is having a strategy for getting through the 2 stages of minion hydras as quickly as possible. So if I have a good cast boon I make sure I have all my bloodstones ready for that stage (and not lodged in the bone hydra), or if I have a damage dealing dash then I am lined up, ready to dash end to end through them. When you just have the single bone hydra head to deal with you can pace yourself and take your time.
The next boss is a whole different kettle of fish.Oh, I've just been ignoring the little ones and focusing on the main one. Attacking minions always seems like wasting good attacks. I'll try it your way next time.
Probably a bit late for this but im pretty sure you can't actually damage the main hydra when his minions are out. Might be where you're going wrong! (If I remember correctly). Early game just finding ways to get more death defiances (one of the trinkets + the mirror and you can effectively get 4 lives or so) helps a lot. The boss at the end of the section after bone hydra was a bit of a choke point for me for ages.
Similar to lazyboy I first finished a run at around 30 runs. Polishes off the 9 or whatever you need for credits by 50-something. I would describe my gaming skills as bang average so you'll get there fo sho
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Jumped in on this last week (patch + 20 quid on GoG seemed like a good time).
This game is fucking lit!!! Feel like the general internet-deciding-it's-a mess has kind of displaced any chat of it being a bit of a corker - I'm on the bit in the hotel - just wandering around the bar area, listening in on conversations, admiring the incredible detail to costumes, character design, architecture, it's just.. on another level really. Obviously most of that's to do with what an insane budget it's clearly had but I can't remember the last game I played that has this much imagination and visual madness. I was apprehensive of the first person viewpoint but the immersion has been brilliant in places
Still early doors but `iI haven't noticed a single issue or bug yet, probably 7 or 8 hours in, playing on PC with a 2060 super. Haven't really got my head around the combat yet which feels like it might be a bit of a weak spot - though I suspect I'm just a bit crap at it
I really hope people wind up giving this a chance because you can feel the blood, sweat, and passion of the CJPR staffers across the game
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Cool glimpsing through your evolving feelings on this game @drahkon - I started this a couple years ago, liked what I played (particularly vibes-wise) but didn't stick with it as I found the first palace / combat a bit tedious / repetitive. Nice to see you pushed through and wound up loving it - I think i'll return to it one day!
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As someone who's had plus for years and recently got gamepass, I don't think Ronnie's points are totally invalid, if a bit abrasively made..
23 hours ago, Cube said:Other than a few EA games (Jedi Fallen Order, Titanfall 2) and Control (which was on Plus with all DLC), Days Gone is better than anything on Game Pass.
This just ain't true - even just in terms of indie games, you've got Ori, Celeste, Edith Fitch, Undertale, Spiritfarer, just for starters which are easily better games before you get to the bigger studio titles.
https://www.gamepassta.com/metacritic?5ec8d577_page=1 It really is a ridiculous list and, though it's apples and pears, its, at least for the consumer, a way better platter than what sony offer.
As Sheikah says though you don't actually end up playing many of them, and moreover, it's hard to see where it'll all go in future. Theres a bit of a weird vibe the last couple of years of gamers feeling entitled to endless free stuff and free games - I suppose as a result of gamepass and Epic Games weekly freebies. I guess that's why Sony released a bunch of free games last month on PSN (cracking deal!).
I do think it's a fair point to bring up - obviously it's microsoft's money but it's definitely going to have a knock on effect on studios and studio staff - if your game isn't on gamepass you've got a massive chunk of your audience who increasingly think paying more than 20 quid for a game is weird. Curious to see how that all pans out in future as gamepass (presumably) gets bigger and bigger
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On 3/23/2021 at 7:56 PM, Happenstance said:I haven’t played too much of the game yet but I doubt it would be too confusing. Given this was released on consoles that never had Persona 5 they probably had to design it to be played with little prior knowledge.
Aye cool cheers. Let us know how you get on with it!
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Been quite intrigued by this game
I never got into Persona 5 because, whilst I loved the vibe, I found the palaces (or the first one at least) to be really boring, and the fighting system fairly underwhelming / repetitive. If the palaces and fighting are different, might I like this or would jumping in be confusing AF? I enjoyed Dynasty Warriors back in the day
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2 hours ago, LazyBoy said:It’s such a brave game - not just the Groundhog Day structure, but the nature of rewards and the respect played to the player. Can’t recommend it enough.
Thirded. Impressed they've got it working on the switch what with all the crazy physics involved
Genuinely think it's one of the best games I've ever played. As you say the way the mysteries unfold and how the game teaches you to progress are completely unique. Y'all are in for a treat!
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On 2/4/2021 at 12:56 PM, Goafer said:I'm still completely in love with this image. If there was an award for best promotional artwork, this would get my vote hands down.
Basically just this though innit?
Interested to see how this collection will review. I played ME2 for the first time last year and generally really enjoyed it, but I have to say that with no nostalgia goggles the gameplay is reaalllyy repetitive - very mid-00s corridor shooter stuff. The writing holds up really well but for younger audiences coming to it fresh for the first time, it'll be a bit of a weird one!
Nonetheless - the trailer is ace. Nailed to tone
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On 1/5/2021 at 3:04 PM, Sheikah said:To be honest I meant more that the world design was dated in the sense that many new open world ideas had since come along that made for my more interesting gameplay. For instance, Breath of the Wild introduced mini puzzles throughout the world in the form of Korok seed puzzles and those miniature dungeons, ensuring there was plenty of stuff to entertain you minute to minute. AC Valhalla goes with the BoTW formula in that treasures and "mysteries" (mini quests) are rarely just throwaway - there's a small puzzle involved to complete each one. For instance, you might need to figure out how to get into a building and to do that you have to climb to a position where you can shoot an arrow at a door's lock through an open window.
GoT doesn't do this sort of thing at all, and there are repeated location types over and over with very little nuance to anything you might find there. One or the worst offenders are fox shrines, where you just follow a fox a short distance to a small shrine to pray at - there's really nothing clever or interesting about them. One of the most interesting parts of the game are bamboo shrines but they are over in a flash.
Yeah this is pretty on the money, I'd say, sadly. I've played about 15 hours of Valhalla lately and there's so much more of a range to the gameplay, the mysteries and events around the map, and even the emotional range of the characters, stories, and random events. GoT by contrast I found felt incredibly repetitive, most of the stuff you find on the map doesn't really affect the wider gameplay, and the characters and story are really one note and a bit portentous. It could all do with a bit more humour and at least some side quests that didn't involve a bandit camp or a 'surprise' ambush.
That said - I do also agree in part with @Goafer in that, despite there not being much of interest to interact with, the quality of the art design and the polish meant I was still enjoying the experience, playing about with photo mode, all that jazz, a fair bit. I stopped about halfway through act 2 but will probably go back since so many people have praised the last act. I feel like a sequel could be really great if they focused on a wider range of gameplay and a wider tonal spectrum to the same level of beauty and polish
Also, the thing that does set this game apart are the one on one duels. I'd definitely much prefer this game if there were 50% less content and enemies, and more focused on these and the journey between them, Shadow of the Colossus style. Some of the sets they take place in are so incredible. Loved the mythic quest that involved beating 5 ronin around the map; breathtaking stuff and the difficulty is just right
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Ended up getting in leui of a stable Cyberpunk.. played a few hours, I'm really loving it!! The new 'mysteries' on the map are excellent, all unique little discoveries, amusing, and diverse in their gameplay, unlike say Ghost of Tushima or thre previous two games. Combat is maybe a bit weak but feels chunky and satisfying. So far the writing and voiceover performances are way way better than Origins or Odyssey - those awful accents really put me off those games.
The first few hours have nice warm Skyrimish feels, the raids have a cool Two Towers feeling, and it's got a bunch of personality. Love it!
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Anyone got this? General impressions seem to be pretty good, though watching SkillUp's review is seems like it has a load of the annoying bullshit that put me off Odyssey after a while (deeply repetitive gameplay, ridiculous unwarranted length, general jankiness).
That said others have said all the stories are weird and inventive, which is the kind of thing I want out of a game like this.
I'm still making my way through Tshima which will probably keep me going until cyberpunk, but it would be great to hear thoughts on anyone who's played it
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Finished (a run on) this muthafuckeererrrrrrr
Such a great game! Love how the game sort of justifies its structure and post-game stuff.
For me I've found almost every run to be completely different, technique-wise. For instance, nearly finished the game a couple runs back with a ridiculous boon that charged up my call gauge in about 2 seconds. Then my winning run turned my
Spoilergun special move into a grenade launcher that shot about 8 bullets
As @LazyBoy says a huge part of it is how any one boon can totally change things up; take you from a poor run to a suddenly amazing one - getting a gamechanger of a perk at the end.
Felt like it's perfectly paced in terms of total playtime feeling just right, and generally feeling a sense of progression both overall with cumulative perks and with each individual run getting a little further. Never felt like I needed to check a guide / tips online as you get just enough time with the bosses to figure them out before you start over. Feel like if the final boss was about 20% harder I'd have hated it and it might've felt like a slog to finish, so definitely a tricky balancing act for the devs.
I'll definitely be playing more of their back catalogue - I didn't get on with Pyre that well but will revisit that one too.. playing Hades makes me wish there was more games with this kind of gameplay and deeply illustrative 2D style (Similarly Banner Saga). I'd love a big action RPG with this level of art direction and quality voiceover. Hopefully the amazing surge of indie games over the last generation will keep on rolling along!
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Got this on Sunday and can't stop playing. IT'S SO BLOODY GREAT. Never really liked the idea of roguelikes but I love how this keeps throwing in new surprises at every new run, forces to you mix up your strategy and such.
Got to the boss at the end of Elysium just now off the back of mainly upgrading my dash a tonne to do a load of damage and stagger and whizzing around the levels. With some weapons it feels like Geometry wars or something, others more like Zelda.
Also love how it doesn't really tell you anything and leaves it up to you to work out what all the visuals mean and relate to. Most of all, just so gratifying to smash shit up
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Surprised how much time I've spent on this since launch. I've hardly touched Ghost of Tsushima this week!
Getting a good handle on the best tactics for each of the rounds. Top tip on Seesaw - jumping parallel to the angle (ie toward the angle) makes you way less likely to slip down. Had a funny game where only me and one other person made it through Slime Climb and ended with that stupid tail game chasing back and forth for a few minutes.
One reason the game really succeeds, I think, is that it's basically a new genre - 'competitive platforming', It seems such an obvious idea but just having platforming / racing combined with multiplayer (and knockout rounds) is such an obviously great fit for gaming.
I'd actually love it it someone took the platformer race knockout premise and made a more kind of 'hardcore' version. Love Fall Guys for what it is (more of a fun party game) but it definitely opens up a bunch of possibilities for similar games going forward.
Am I missing anything? I can't think of any multiplayer platformers that aren't co-op or more arena based (towerfall, for example)
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Played a bit more of this - defo working a little more smoothly than yesterday. Won a round! I actually think it could do with a little more tension in the final round (less players, or maybe one more round?) as it's a slight anticlimax at the end.
Nonetheless - Great fun! I think the devs are british - cool spotting the influences; there's certainly some 90s childrens gameshows in there, 50:50 and the like, alongside takeshi's castle and total wipeout. Also a few of the modes remind me of the multiplayer maps in Diddy Kong Racing 64, alongside obvs Rocket League et all
Feels like the race modes are definitely the pick of the bunch; great, funny stuff. The physics seem a bit too off in the football modes though, and the tile match and tail grabbing modes get a bit boring quickly.
Like @drahkon , I'd imagine it might not keep me playing that long but I'll certainly dip back in and out as they add more courses and modes in future. Perfect PS+ game!
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Fall Guys is so fucking funny man. Definitely pretty broken in places but hopefully that's just day 1 issues. Living that Takeshis Castle dream!!
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Yep, was in two minds whether to buy this but it seemed a good lockdown game (especially as my hol to Japan was cancelled
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I looove it so far! I can see the critisms - tonnes of games like this around and it doesn't add THAT much new to the mix. But.. lots of little touches make it really work
- Strolling through the countryside feels so chillers - lovely ambience with the natural sound design and the occasion chime of music - a nice tonic after the constant stress of tLoU2
- Love the Haikus!
- Game has a great sense of overarching direction / mood / vibe to it. The particle team could probably chill out a bit but the world feels really wonderful and cohesive, even down to the nice paint wash animations on the storyteller cutscenes and the UI.
- It's basically an Assassin's Creed game but it's so dope to see what those games could be - not falling apart at the seams, no level gating bollocks, voice acting that isn't hammy AF, not crumbling under the weight of a billion stats and systems
Not totally sold on the main chap and his voice actor. Bit bland / po-faced. Also feel like I may have seen half of what the game has to offer in my first couple of sessions - but hoping the game can spring some surprises - looking forward to playing more!
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On 7/13/2020 at 10:59 PM, dwarf said:@dan-likes-trees
Highlights:
Ellie:
- Open world section. I thought/hoped there'd at least be one more section like this in the game but what was there was a welcome change of pace (especially enjoyed the Take on Me cover. *don't think I've mentioned this?*). In fact, the daytime city areas with Dina were generally my favourite sections, partly because I didn't feel so uptight playing them! I remember a large area dotted with shops which led to fun player vs human vs clicker fights. Fair play for sneaking through some sections without killing everyone - I got roped into scouring for the majority of collectables, mostly because I didn't want to miss out on upgrades or story notes. Unfortunately, due to the greater number of paths that take you from A to B in this game, there were also far more nooks and crannies for items to hide in, which completely kills the pace if you want to do a thorough search. I wish I hadn't been so anal about finding everything in hindsight. I feel like if you want to find the hidden stuff, the best option is to drop every single enemy before retreading the environment. Not exactly fun, but the game discourages other approaches.- The Joel hotel (?) section mostly because of the way the guy puts his foot through everything. Straight up slays. Makes you remember how much of a bad-ass protector you were when you played as him 7 years ago IRL.
- Museum, specifically the space takeoff scene. Less sold on the aquarium part but that was probably down to it being one of those on-the-nose parallels you mentioned.
- First stalker fight as mentioned.
- The dance cutscene (along with the other scenes I mentioned in my previous post) - I could only vaguely remember watching it in the trailer from years ago, but it comes at a perfect point in the story.
- Best combat sections in the game were in Hillcrest. Scraping through those dog patrols on your own with low health and ammo *chef's kiss*.
Abby:
- The early horde chase with Abby. Thought there might've been more sections like this, but the first chase really caught me off guard. ND do a great job of drawing your eye in the right direction without making you feel like you're being dragged along by a string.
- Stadium. As the GameSpot lads pointed out, that so much time was put into an area you pass through in a few minutes makes it all the more special. (And as Druckmann said, certain optional elements like the Take on Me cover *can't recall saying how fucking LIT this bit is?* have a similar effect - knowing you could've missed them makes you appreciate them more.) In the Breath of the Wild thread I mentioned the importance of little mechanics like the weather effects - they don't necessarily drastically change the way you play the game, but they nevertheless add texture and make the world feel that extra bit more... ahem... immersive. In the same way, it's the love and care that goes into the details in TLoU2 - like the posters as you mentioned, and the sheer number of unique assets generally - that makes this game stand out.
- Unintentional highlight: the bit where you scale a building with Manny, and you're meant to use the same rope to abseil through a hole in the roof. I heard Manny say, 'that's a long drop,' but I couldn't immediately see how to get down without just jumping in. The incongruity of seeing Abby plummet and faceplant to her death, having just made it through a really tense section, really made me cackle my nut off.
- The Shortcut - was probably my favourite Abby mission - slow burn with neat interactions with Lev. Verticality, jumping about, exploration etc.
- You're right about the hospital monster (i.e. the Rat King) - got completely bodied by that cunt a couple of times. The brutal death animations definitely make you want to avoid repeat mistakes. Also, having to dodge the fucking dog thing when you try to get some distance from the Rat was a brilliant touch.
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Won't harp on about the narrative dissonance stuff for too much longer, I promise, but since you brought it up: I agree the Nora/Ellie/Abby moments don't work perfectly, especially if you run into a fail state by refusing to comply. However, I feel like the game would've lost out on something if it didn't make those scenes interactive. I guess one part of my brain went through the motions of following the prompts because I knew there weren't going to be multiple winning paths that would continue the story. Even though I entered those moments with that knowledge, with that game logic mindset, I still found myself slowing down with the button presses during fights because the weight of the interactions/desperation of the victims was so grim. So in that sense the interactive element did pay off for me.
There were situations where I only pressed a button a couple of times, and the game didn't trigger a fail-state, but maybe I got lucky where you guys didn't? (e.g. I might've avoided a fail state by pressing square just one more time than you did, or I might've refused to press square in a situation where there wasn't actually a fail-state to trigger)
If you trigger a fail state by refusing to fight Abby at all at the end, I kind of feel like that's fair/to be expected. If you trigger a fail state by not pressing to drown Abby at the climactic moment, that's perhaps less fair. I wouldn't want to be asked to explain why I think that though.
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Ellie's motivation - yeah I think it was hard to get on board with from quite early on in the game actually. You end up accommodating it in order to enjoy the rest of the story, because there is genuinely some great stuff going on elsewhere. Better to run with the logic even if it isn't that logical.
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I'd be interested to know what you thought was more violent than the David scene - that made me wince more than anything in this game, even with the framing aspect you mentioned. In fact, the closest thing to that was the Nora torture scene, and they employed the same camera angle. Granted, you actually play a role in the Nora scene, but still not convinced the difference between the two games is that big. Tonally, the major difference is that Part 2 leans more heavily into Ellie's psychopathy. On paper, Joel does things that are equally atrocious, it just doesn't cast him in such a compromising light. Willing to concede the possibility I'm underplaying the differences/misremembering things though.
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One of my main takeaways was: even though I don't consider myself a diehard fan of the series, or over-invested in the characters, when I finished Part 2 I felt sadder than I expected to. Crept up on me for sure.
SpoilerYeah I actually think the way the game encourages collecting every last thing (and how a lot of it reduces down to clipping-along-a-wall-waiting-for-the-item-prompt-to-pop) is one it’s bigger 'failings'. The game does such a great job of making it just about possible to stealth past sections (love how they usually end having to open a loud clunking door that takes a few seconds whilst everyone suddenly realise where you are) and there it feels most natural and real, but it’s always tempered by the nagging sense that you’re missing cool shit.
By the end I’d kind of worked out the ‘language’ of the game in the sense that they make it somewhat clear what sections just have resources (ie skippable) and which have story stuff / collectibles / notes and missable items. Definitely the best approach would to be to do one playthrough totally naturally and then a second trying to uncover everything, but aintnobodygottime for playing such a grim game twice in quick succession!
Same thoughts as you with the dance flashback. The interaction with Joel there really made the whole game work for me (in the sense that Ellie’s lust for revenge seems as much about her frustration that her last years with Joel were spent or were wasted hating him than necessarily just that he died). The acting from everyone in that scene was beaut.
LOVED the stadium (and playing with doggos). Also jumped right down that hole in the roof, lol.
Re - narrative dissonance - Yeah I think you’re pretty spot on, see what you mean with the fine line on what seems fair and unfair to ‘fail’ the player on too. The balance of player input in those those cutscenes is so tricky to get right especially when it comes down to splitsecond hesitation.
Re - violence - Yeah I did think of the Nora scene whilst writing that, but I guess it’s partly in the buildup - David is shown to have gone a bit mad, it’s at the end of a fight, it seems more instinctive (ie right after he has you pinned to the ground) whereas the Nora is shown to be a more human character, it comes at the end of you specifically tracking her down, chasing her, and then the player is made to be more complicit in what’s ultimately torture of a dieing woman for information, rather than killing-or-be-killed.
In general though it was more the kills of random grunts that got me (also having to see horrible gore every time Ellie/Abbey died - not sure I needed that, esp. on hard mode). Defo had the same kind of instinctual laughing reaction to some of the kills (MK style), but the insane fidelity felt soo brutal in other places. There was one bit where one of the random grunts was like ‘come closer.. (I did) I want you to look me in the eyes (I did)’ and then over a few seconds bled out and collapsed in front of me. On the one hand - amazing, spontaneous, natural - on the other hand, not sure what any of that stuff is reeaally there for asides from hammering home that this world is brutal and violence is cyclical, which it already does quite enough of
Also though, hard to say what I’ve misremembered from the original too - plus I played this game with my partner watching some of it, in contrast to playing the first on mu own, which probs made me more atune to that stuff and why it’s in the game.
Great hearing everyone's thoughts on the game. Finding myself talking more about things I didn't like or wasn't sure of just as that stuff is all quite interesting, so would like to confirm that I thought it was fucking brill.
Keep us updated on your progress @Fierce_LiNk - it's about where you are that the game starts to get a bit more divisive in peoples opinions, so would love to hear your blow-by-blow thoughts!
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Finally finished the other day too. So much to chew on. What an epic! What a videogame!
Ultimately found it a really interesting and rewarding experience - I've been enjoying finally getting to read through all the spoiler tags and writing about the game elsewhere online (Also had a little look at the LoU2 sub and instantly bailed out - what a bunch of nutters).
Feels incredibly reductive to boil this game down to upsides and downsides BUT to spare y’all a massive essay...
Spoiler+ The direction of this game is so incredible, so cohesive in it’s tone despite how the narrative jumps about, the music is so beautiful, some of the settings are so stunning; the sky-bridges, the snow, the mist, the use of pitch black and torchlight, the burning village - the details of every poster or graffiti on the walls, how every bedroom tells a story of the person who lived there.. I can't think of a videogame that matches this; not just technical craft but imagination, mood, and specificity of world building
+ Acting is all incredible across the board - I thought it was remarkable how much Troy Baker stole the show given such limited time on screen - the flashback interactions with between him and Ellie were so beautifully realised, and I really feel they were essential to the game’s structure paying off
+ Typically ridiculous naughty dog set pieces. The boss fight with the monster from Inside, and the unexpected car section were highlights for me. You guys?
+ Generally felt all the core gameplay loop was really entertaining - actually unlike you guys I found I was able to sneak through a lot of sections by the end - often killing one or two out of ten or so guards; making distractions, crawling through grass, running back to hide when spotted, or full on legging it through the ends of some sections (Only issue there being it felt like I was skipping content!)
+ Generally thought the Abbey section was really excellently done after a bit of a sense of ‘I have to do it all again??’. (Also amazed I didn’t get that spoiled, aside from crowingjoe basically blurting it out. Cheers mate.) Anyway, it massively opened up the scope of the game; seeing the details of how the wolves were living in the stadium through overheard conversations and environment design, playing with the good dogs.. loved it. Thought she was an interestingly written, flawed, and unusual protagonist that just about mixed up the gameplay enough to keep things interesting (also as someone who gets bad vertigo - v convincing). Can't really think of an equivalent in gaming of playing with perspectives, and the back and forths really expanded the game beyond a simple revenge story for me
- The choice thing that @Shorty and Dwarf mentioned was really interesting to me. As Dwarf says, I think it's impossible to tell the kind of story they were telling whilst maintaining player agency (especially keeping in mind that it recently came out that in Mass Effect only 10% of players made renegade choices). So I’m fine with lack of choice - however! I really felt like the game felt broken in the big moments where you’re made to keep hammering square - beating up Nora, I stopped pressing square and Ellie just kept breathing awkwardly - attacking Abbey, I stopped pressing square like Shorty and was killed. Had a similar experience in the original game too. Making the player complicit in the brutal actions falls pretty flat when there’s no player choice to do anything else - I’m not sure the answer to this, but I wonder if just having a non-interactive cutscene would have worked better for those sections, making it clear that it's Ellie's (and Abbey's) story rather than the player's.
- I rewatched the scene you mentioned in the original game @dwarf and do actually the level of violence is quite different - you see Ellie smashing David’s face in but the shot is framed so that you only see Ellie and her reaction rather than the actual gruesome outcome. It’s also remarkable how graphics have come on, rewatching that clip having just finished 2. I found myself understanding why there is so much violence given the kind of meta-story they tell, but also feeling that I could have seen 40% less disgusting moments of violence and still have had a similar effect. There’s something uncomfortable about this being a game that sells millions of copies - I’m sure not all players are going to be thinking about why the devs show the level of violence that they do and what that’s there for.
- Felt like the sections that worked best and were the most memorable were the flashbacks and the quieter moments - the amazing museum and aquarium visits, the Synagogue, every scene with Joel. Toward the end the combat sections were starting -just starting - to feel a bit arbitrary and dull and samey, by contrast - I do think there could have been a few combat scenes with humans cut from the game - especially as the clicker sections provide an easy route out / alternative to the videogame-protagonist-as-serial-killer thing. On narrative dissonance - it only seems odd at points here because the game is so unusual in actually engaging with that concept (similarly to David's chat in the original)
- The epilogue felt pretty mishandled to me. Ellie’s motivation was hard to get onboard with throughout the game but felt just about believable - but leaving Deena, wee baby and the idyllic farm didn’t, for me. Actually I found it remarkable how similar this all was to the ending of another recent AAA game which I won’t name for spoilers - I felt that game's epilogue felt a lot more natural and less rushed. I also felt like the final scene with the guitar was way too on the nose and didn’t work at all.
- Some of the parallels between Abbey and Ellie were waay too on the nose!
Overall I’ve spent so much time thinking about this game that, though I’m not yet sure where I ultimately land, I’m really glad it exists, that Naughty Dog have taken so many risks and unusual choices, and ultimately pushed the medium forward narratively - and for all the bits I found distasteful or punishing, it's been ages since I've been so continually keen to get back to my ps5 after work and play more. Whew.
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13 hours ago, LazyBoy said:@dan-likes-trees good post.
So games can tell stories in unique ways, and they're great for supplementing gameplay. Agree 100%. No debate there.
Is that the case here though? Is this game telling story in a unique way? No. Production values through the roof, superb voice acting. But still 30 minutes of gameplay followed by 10 minutes of non-interactable cut scene, as triple AAA have been doing since the PS1.
And supplementing? Not here, as the dialogue around the game confirms. The story is the main event here. It came first, the focus of all the innovations and effort, whilst the gameplay languishes in generic last gen third person.
That's what kind of game this is and the kind of game Naughty Dog make. And loads of people enjoy them - wonderful. But if those people turn around and say they don't like the game because what happened in the game isn't what they want, with no mention of the game itself, then what is the game to them? A chore just to pass through to get to a cut scene?
All I hear about this game in the media is either:
story good = game good OR story bad therefore game bad.
Does the gameplay not factor for you in this paradigm? Then why play a game? That's my point.
I see your point a lot more clearly now - actually I don't necessarily disagree and am probably too early in the game to say for sure where I land - as I say, some of the stealthing does seem pretty dated - I'll come back to this thread when I'm done to see if my opinion changes.
The game that I really think of reading your post, though, is Red Dead II. I wound up quite liking that game but all the discourse seemed to be about story rather than how awful and totally monotonous the gameplay was but still garnered insane critical acclaim - and that game has much more of a gameplay > cutscene > gameplay structure.
Here, I do think the gameplay here supplements the story - As Julius notes, it's not told just through cutscenes, and much of the relationships are fleshed out by 'unlocking' optional conversations whilst exploring nooks and crannys (there's one lovely early section in a synagogue which fleshes out a secondary character) - the gunplay feels suitably desperate to the story it's telling, finishing fights with your last bullet, scrambling to find a melee weapon to kill off a last, rather than arbitrary in the way of many AAA games.
@Julius has covered a lot of it in his (excellent) post so I won't repeat too much, but I agree, touches like how beautifully constructed the guitar mini-game is really elevate those moments above putting your controller down and watching them
Lastly - I think it's a good sign when a game inspires this much heated (and well written) debate from all sides. Whether or not you like what it ends up doing, it's great to see a massive game that's divisive in this way (similar in a way to sayDeath Stranding last year - not for me but I'm glad it exists) especially given how bland and 'safe' a lot of AAA games are these days.
9 hours ago, Ronnie said:What failure? It's sitting at a 90% review score on Rotten Tomatoes, sold a ton at the box office and plenty of people, myself included, love it. It didn't resonate with a group of fans but that was absolutely not down to the execution. It was for story reasons, because people couldn't deal with the film not lining up 100% with their expectations of how they wanted the story to unfold, after a thirty year build up of expectation. Just because Luke wasn't mowing stormtroopers down with his green lightsaber or Snoke didn't explain his backstory in pointless detail does not = a poorly directed mess. The hysterical disappointment in some quarters says more about hype and fan expectation/entitlement, than the final product itself.
Yeah my bad you are right - I'm always getting confused between the titles of that and Rise of Skywalker (generico names don't help). My points apply to the latter so I basically agree with you. I don't think LJ is a great film (I thought it was ok, LOVE knives out tho) but certainly the online hate was way overboard and as you say there are certainly parallels. As with that film though - just because a load of internet folk hated on it doesn't mean it was a failure, as you note - and same with this game.
I would also throw in that some of the hate for LJ was bound up with...
Spoiler...how it was pushing further from Star Wars as being something very male, hetero, and white (see: online hate for Kelly Marie Tran) and I wonder if that's a factor here
Particularly that it's the white male protagonist that's killed off early, and that the central character in this game is a lesbian (or bisexual) woman.
By the way, I think it's pretty extraordinary that one of the biggest games of all time features same sex relationship between it's two main characters, particularly without making a big deal out of it - can't think of a similar scale of TV show or film that has done that.
Possibly I'm reaching here as I've not read much of the online hate due to spoilers - and I'm definitely saying this is only a small minority of people - but still, I suspect it's a factor.
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7 hours ago, LazyBoy said:That being the case then I would think there is going to be backlash regardless of what story they put out (not that naughty dog will care going by the sales figures). Cause after all this isn't high fiction, it's fan fiction. The comparison @CrowingJoe79 made with the Last Jedi is quite apt in that sense. People turn up to find out what happens to their favourite characters. And if what happens isn't what they want, then that's the game ruined for them. That's what you get when the game is just a vessel for the story.
MGSV had a dogshit story, but the game is still loved. Why? Cause who gives a crap about an unfinished, poorly thought out story when you have gameplay that is so fun, varied and replayable? You know who cares? People who should realise maybe theyre engaging with the wrong medium.
This is such an odd point to end on. People like games for a variety of reasons - they don't have to be the reason that you happen to play games. Equally, many people didn't get into MGSV for the reasons you state.
The games that have really stuck with me over the years - Outer Wilds, Shadow of the Colossus, Edith Fitch, Inside, even something like Celeste, haven't done so solely because of the gameplay, but because of how the gameplay has supplemented a story or 'vibe' that has resonated with really me. People always talk about LoU's story because the gameplay is perfectly tailored around the story that it's telling, capturing the desperation of the characters. It's cool if you prefer games that just feel great to play, but that's your preference - it doesn't mean that other people are engaging with games for the wrong reasons. See the strong sales and critical acclaim of Life is Strange of early Telltale games.
Again - I've read a lot of books - I did an English degree! But games can be unique in how they can tell stories - and it's a diservice to games to claim otherwise. As an example, in a weird way, no other medium has managed to capture the experience of losing a parent and the strange relationship between father and son afterward as God of War did for me.
Lastly, there are some parallels to Last Jedi but in the case of that film, its failure was ultimately more about the execution of that film - a totally whack, poorly directed mess - than simply that it didn't show how they imagined their characters to end up. For Lou2's flaws, (from a few hours in) it feels like it's doing exactly what its creative leads are setting out for it to do.
(Side note: totally see where @Goafer's coming from (not opened that spoiler mind). This game isn't for everyone - I can totally see why people wouldn't want to engage with this game - that's cool - again it just shows how games now are way more diverse than ten years ago, and that different games are for different people)
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Interesting that all the negativity on this thread is from people who haven't played the game, whereas everyone who's played it seems pretty positive? (Just skimmed through mind, given I noticed a couple of spoilers).
Anyways just popping my thoughts in the mix - about 5 hours in and it's such a masterful game, certainly in terms of directing and of technical finesse.
I've always found the 'read a book if you want a story' argument a bit bizarre. I read a lot, but I also play games because they can tell different stories in unique ways. Last of Us and this sequel are I think a pretty great example of that, where a lot of the story of the world is conveyed through optional environmental storytelling. Figuring out the story of deceased survivors through letters and clues scattered around abandoned buildings still makes for some really beautiful moments.
That said the game certainly suffers from so many games in recent years having been inspired by the original - the gameplay feels a lot more familiar, and it hasn't really evolved as much as one would hope in 7 years - still a fair bit of moving boxes around et all - and think I've thoroughly had my fill of stalking through long grass and pressing triangle in games at this point.
Still - excited to play more. The most notable and impressive thing for me (alongside the directing of sequences and the way the music works) is the quality of the acting and VOs across the board. Really puts into perspective what a complete embarrassment 95% of games are in this regard - one of the few games where my partner will actively sit down and watch me play rather than have to leave the room because the acting is so awful (looking at you, every assassins creed game). Can't praise the leads highly enough - and the writing feels so much more engaging than Unchartered - that's what really carries the game for me.
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Sign me up to team 'console looks nasty AF'
Loads of great stuff on how there - very to my taste with lots of cool indie or stylised sort of stuff. Even if not many are exclusives, makes me excited about games over the next couple of years.
Kena and Little Devil inside I loved; loads of personality. Deahtloop, Jett, Returnal, ghostwire, cat robot game, rocket league smash em up game, all look a blast. Camaan!
Surprised so many of y'all are up for the digital version. Disk all the way for me
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Cyberpunk 2077 (10th December 2020)
in Other Consoles
Posted
Played another 20 or so hours of this
Just popping in to say that this game is still cracking. Great moments, excellent characters, exceptional world design and interiors
I guess some of the GTA style stuff is a bit garbage, but I've not really felt the need to play it as if it's that kind of game so I'm not too bothered really.
It most reminds me of the old Mass Effect games - given the reverence that triogy has had with the rerelease, I really hope this eventually winds up getting recognition - the developers deserve a tonne of praise but it's obviously been totally drowned out!